H-scenes in Visual Novels: Opinions and discussion

Off-Topic
#202

Kinda. You do have something here, I debated typing up something similar before. But like… I think limitting H scenes only to be judged /as/ porn as being rather… bland? Classical art, film, fashion don’t have this issue of having to be separated or solely judged as porn. Rather they can blend sexuality into their works. I don’t think you have to judge H scenes solely as ‘porn’, unless your standards for judging porn are comparable to your usual critiquing habits.

Like I’ve said before, Kanashimi no Belladonna, Yuri Kuma Arashi, and Lupin the III: The Woman Called Fujiko Mine are all great examples of completely sexual shows. To separate their sexual elements out as being ‘porn’ would be reductionist. Even if you are doing it to compliment the show, you’d be missing something fundamental. There is no reason why shizz like this isn’t in visual novels. In all likelihood stuff like this does exist. (Though I have yet to really see it.)

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#203

Let’s see. I didn’t read everything that was said before (since it would take a while), but my opinion is this:
I don’t think H-scenes are necessary, but I do think that they can satisfy some people. As such, I have nothing against them, but I think they should make them optional and, by default, put it on Non-H and require a code or something to activate the scenes.

Here’s why:

I think what keeps the VN market from flourishing more is the fact that they are mostly directed towards adults. In all honesty, the first VN I played was one with H-scenes and it was why I played it. However, it still was closer to curiosity than interest. As such, there are plenty of VN that doesn’t feel right with H-scenes. While playing VNs, I came across very few that actually gave the choice of activating H-scenes and they were usually enabled by default. These occurrences were Ef - A Tale of the Two and Kamodori Alchemy Meister (if you consider it a VN). Ef did an exceptional work for many things, including the forced choice of enabling or disabling with no default option.

However, I think that, if the H-scenes were locked by a password of some sort, some VNs could certainly be offered to read to 10+ y.o. people. Granted, some are still too complicated for young people, but I read Rewrite at 12 year old and I had no problem with it, yet I am not even a native English speaker.

So, I think that, the best way to go is not directly in the VNs themselves, but more in the market.

On another note, I am the kind of person who is only attracted to H-scenes containing characters that I have some sort of connection with. In Rewrite, that would either be Akane or Kagari, Shizuru being one that feels too precious anyway. I was excited, but also disappointed when I learned that Eri Kitamura was doing the voice acting for Akane… After all, Eri Kitamura never does H-scenes, but she’s awesome… Kana Hanazawa is also awesome. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#204

DTIPBIJAYS kinda did this. It was all about lack of privacy, but there was a single moment where you needed to get a password to view a H-CG. I never found the password in my playthrough though. It might just be a cosmetic thing. Interesting idea though.

#205

You mean All Age versions? They’re effectively the same thing. More or less. And again, I feel this is fine for some VNs. But their definitely exists works which /need/ their sexual scenes. I’m speaking universally here, not just about VNs.

#206

The problem with this and other things like it that people have suggested in the past is: Its a lot of extra work for a market that 1) Lots of VNs arent aimed at anyways, and 2) Has yet to prove that it would even be profitable for most companies.

#207

Well, first of all, as someone who’s been programming for six years, it’s not really hard work. Just add a paper with the code on it and have the code universal. It’s just to safeguard the option, to unlock it. If it’s a kid, he/she will probably won’t bother searching the Internet.

[quote=“Yerian, post:206, topic:401”]

  1. Lots of VNs arent aimed at anyways
    [/quote]I think that’s where lies the whole problem though. Some VN are just complete shit: they’re only there for the H-scenes. Those, we don’t care. Honestly though, I sometimes feel like going for H after watching an awesome series. Take Rewrite for example: when I got done with it, I had this urge of searching for doujins (not sure how honest I should be on here lol) and back then, there was none to be found. I think that’s where they come in.

[quote=“Yerian, post:206, topic:401”]
2) Has yet to prove that it would even be profitable for most companies.
[/quote]Unfortunately, that’s where VNs lose their reputations. Companies, in Visual Novel making, seem to be aiming for the H in the first place. That’s what make my idea useless: there’s seldom a VN that actually exist for the story. I personally can’t handle VNs that have, as their only purpose, a bunch of H-scenes with no decent story or whatsoever. Rewrite has been my favourite VN and it has none, my second favourite being Ef (which have it as an option). In other words, I think the problem lies not in the H-scenes, but in the market and the economy itself. I think there is a great potential there. There is much more money to be made out of this and all that need to be fixed up is the reputation. That’s why I think my idea is good. If the idea could be adapted into a law, VNs could be used as stories, as books, as medias, etc. What makes them so good and so special is the dynamism that books lack. I think children would profit from that. All these kids in high school that doesn’t read their books because “they’re boring”.

Anyway, I know my opinion is grand and that’s always what I do, but I think there’s much to be done. We need to evaluate WHAT exactly a VN should be and are we fine to define it as hentai? Everybody I have recommended Rewrite all answered me the same thing: “Another one of those hentai thingy”, yet there’s none.

Well, I’m getting off-topic, so I’ll end it here.

#208

Everything Typemoon, everything Key, everything Seventh Expansion, almost every VN that has had an anime adaptation that wasn’t just literally porn. Some of those VNs that had anime adaptations which were literally porn. Saya no Uta even though it is full of sex scenes.

I could probably give an argument whereby story includes many porn focussed VNs as is. I believe a relatively common thought is most popular VNs are really really really bad porn. Not to mention the Author is dead yadada yadada the intentions of the creators don’t matter.

This is just wrong though. Yes, some VNs can and possibly should have all ages versions. But I’ve said it before multiple times and will continue to: Shying away from sex is harmful and wrong. Some pieces of media can and do benefit tremendously from having blatant and explicit sex in their works. And no I’m not speaking from a profit stand point, I’m speaking critically.

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#209

https://vndb.org/g235
I’m not sure where the count is but vndb has a ton of VNs with “no sexual content” as a tag. There’s a lot of console VNs like Phoenix Wright or Zero Escape that have none, those adapted from anime/manga like Nisekoi: Yomeiri!? with none, even just PC releases like Key’s modern stuff, anything Sekai Project’s currently released aside from Grisaia, Nekopara and their western/non VN titles (I guess you could argue the Sakura games too).
These clearly exist for story and even if they didn’t, why must companies that focus on nukige and ergoe have to include all-ages? I generally don’t like hentai so if there’s a VN that’s purely nukige I’m probably going to find no enjoyment and not read it. Even eroge if they aren’t tame enough like G-Senjou I’ll either skip or FF. Clearly they sell. Yes it would be nice to have an option for people like you or me but I don’t like the idea of forcing a company to do something unless you’re trying to stop someone from getting hurt. No one is getting hurt from legal adults reading eroge and getting off to anime girls then having a perfectly healthy relationship with a real person.

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#210

Shying away from sex you say… You do know that “sex” in VNs isn’t just “sex”, right? There is rape, there is all sorts of incest, there is sex in public places, there is child abuse, there is bestiality…

Sure, shying away from those things is terribly terribly bad.

#211

Shying away from friendship you say… You do know that “friendship” in VNs isn’t just “friendship”, right? There is rape, there is all sorts of abuse, there is murder in public places, there is child abuse, there is drugging someone, raping them, and then burying them alive to prove a point…

Sure, shying away from those things is terribly terribly bad.

In a less sarcastic manner: What you’re saying is proving my point. Media has a problem with sex. These issues with depictions in sex aren’t unique to VNs. Shying away from sex is actually one of the things that makes this shit happen. Good portrayals of sexuality are hella freaking important. Making that impossible is the worst possible thing to do, since then peeps confusions, hurt, and worries about sexuality just… stays the same, or gets worse.

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#212

If we only look at VNs that were translated into English, there are hundreds that are story-focused. In Japanese, there would be more than I can read in a lifetime.
The large majority of the market may be nukige, but that’s because there’s a ridiculous number of them.

Unfortunately the VN industry isn’t one that can freely experiment. It’s an expensive and crowded market. Even now, not including H-scenes is seen as a risky decision. Localization is an even crazier thought.
The VN market has survived by being highly-populated, uncensored, and sheltered from the rest of the world.

Can confirm. Pretty sure I’ve read more VNs than books since I was 11. Books suck.

Context and judgement are things.

Damn… Poor @Pepe.

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#213

Eh? Where did you take this from? I didn’t mention friendship in my post at all…

:?

Speak for yourself only. Lots of people in my class love books.

#214

Ah sorry if it wasn’t clear. I was taking what you did and trying to show why it was flawed. You see, what you was saying was basically “Sex is often depicted badly and therefore shouldn’t be depicted at all.” So what I did is try to show why that is ridiculous by substituting in ‘friendship’ instead, since I’d expect you wouldn’t think friendship shouldn’t be depicted simply because it can be depicted badly. (Grisaia spoiler) I also snuck in some rage against Grisaia cause I loathe that VN series

#215

No, I wasn’t implying that at all. Just saying that the problem with eroge isn’t as simple as “shying away from sex”. This is not the only thing that keep people away. Besides, what you said about friendship can’t even be called friendship at all.

#216

The problem with eroge is societal. Much like most problems with everything. Your argument still comes down to “we shouldn’t depict sex”. Unless you’re changing that / I’m reading it wrong. If I am, please clarify it, I’d greatly appreciate it.

Which as I hope I’ve shown time and time again. Is harmful.

Besides, what you said about sex can’t even be called sex at all. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#217

You can say that about any form of media. I was really referring to how a majority of VNs, even without H, are still not for kids. I probably wouldnt give Fate/Stay Night [Realta Nua] to my 10 year old.

[quote=“Psychocrysma, post:207, topic:401”]
Companies, in Visual Novel making, seem to be aiming for the H in the first place. That’s what make my idea useless: there’s seldom a VN that actually exist for the story.
[/quote]Hmmm… doesnt seem like you’ve read very many VNs. Can’t really say anything more than that because thats just not true. I could list hundreds of examples if you wanted me to. Basically:

[quote=“Psychocrysma, post:207, topic:401”]
If the idea could be adapted into a law
[/quote]Im sorry, but thats just ridiculous. That argument leads directly into “You should need a password to access any porn”. People are in charge of what media they themselves create and consume.

[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:210, topic:401”]
You do know that “sex” in VNs isn’t just “sex”, right? There is rape, there is all sorts of incest, there is sex in public places, there is child abuse, there is bestiality…
[/quote]That’s an enormous generalization. Sure, it exists, just like fetishes exist in all types of porn. And I think we’ve all agreed that nukiges are in a league of their own. But your average VN that doesnt have the “high sexual content” tag on VNDB doesnt usually have any of that.

And also, basically what @Aegair said. I’ve been saying this from the beginning of this topic, but media and society have a taboo against sex, which I find… kind of strange?

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#218

Definition of sex by Oxford Dictionary:

“sexual activity, including specifically sexual intercourse” (every kind of sexual activity is included)

Definition of friendship by Urban Dictionary:

“Friendship is actually a form of love […]”

Anyone who loves someone wouldn’t murder him/her.

It’s not strange. It’s just something intimate. People aren’t usually comfortable to depict it. I don’t believe any of us, for example, would have no trouble of posting naked photographs of us in the internet… It’s understandable why it’s a taboo.

#219

Dictionaries are wonderful tools, but they can be quite dangerous and misleading. The meanings of language are complex and fickle, dictionaries reflect those meanings but don’t give them for certain. There are various feminist movements aiming to split rape and sexual assault as different from sex for obvious reasons.

This is just wrong. Like. There’s infinite cases where this has happened.

It being taboo makes it uncomfortable, not it being uncomfortable makes it taboo. I’m sure many people here would be completely comfortable having naked photographs of us on the internet. Hell, I’d be almost certain at least one person on this forum has at least one naked photo of theirs on the internet. :stuck_out_tongue: Sex work is legitimate work, and so is modelling - nude or otherwise.

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#220

Just because they are aiming to do it doesn’t mean it changed the meaning. Most people consider rape a form of sex.

I can’t see how.

So why would it become taboo in the first place? And I don’t think you’re right on that matter…

#221

[quote=“Yerian, post:217, topic:401”]That’s an enormous generalization. Sure, it exists, just like fetishes exist in all types of porn. And I think we’ve all agreed that nukiges are in a league of their own. But your average VN that doesnt have the “high sexual content” tag on VNDB doesnt usually have any of that.
[/quote]

An important note, though: the majority of visual novels, exact details of their sexual conent aside, feature underage people. Whether or not they’re promoting a healthy view of sexuality aside, the sexualization of primarily high school girls is never exactly a good thing.

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