Lol, no.
I could put a whole city between her mouth and her chin here. This makes her look fat. This is just an example, but other CGs repeated this same mistake.
Uh… Yuuji has sex with her right after they confess their damn feelings! Not to mention he didn’t even like her for real…
That honestly looks fine to me. But don’t take what I think about the art seriously anymore, since I’m not the best judge when it comes to art quality.
The whole sex thing is basically a problem with all the routes except Amane’s, it also does little to support your argument. I also don’t understand how you got to the conclusion that Yuuji’s feelings for Yumiko weren’t real. They explain clearly why he likes her.
Personally I think Yumiko was just a really boring character and her route was a disastrous melting pot of daughter of a rich family tropes. But strictly romance speaking, she definitely had one of the better romances (Makina gets an automatic zero in that department simply because I couldn’t stomach the Papa stuff, but the bad end was pretty fun). I’d still rank Sachi above her though, in romance, but definitely in route quality. And yeah, H scenes don’t give an accurate representation of romance development at all. There are terrible examples in all routes, and this isn’t even a problem limited to Grisaia but VNs in general.
I’ve said it before, but for me, what I like most about Grisaia is its theme of redemption. Kajitsu throws the theme around but it’s not until Meikyuu that you understand Yuuji’s character and true role in this concept, and Rakuen provides a fun, despite questionable writing, conclusion to the story with a resounding message of redemption. Grisaia isn’t really about the romance; it’s just there because VNs and eroge and sex. I would actually be interested in seeing what Kajitsu would look like without any romance, since that’s what’s supposed to happen, but of course that’ll never happen.
We call that the anime, but we don’t speak of that monstrosity.
Because all the way until there, he was just like: I dunno if I really like this girl. I just want to protect her. He just took the initiative because he realized she liked him…
Kind of. The anime had its problems, but as for how to actually cover the routes with romance, I can’t really put the anime creators to blame since the VN creators were the ones who were like “lol we don’t know how to do it either, go figure it out yourself.” That kind of hilarious irresponsibility on top of only having 1 cour made it an inevitable failure. Basically, they just shot themselves in the foot by adding romance in the first place, but simultaneously, they had no choice but to given the industry.
I don’t see a problem with this. Why does this make his feelings any less real. Finding out that she liked him made him think more about whether or not he likes her, since he wants to properly answer her feelings. There’s nothing wrong with this.
Think of it this way:
Someone just confessed to you. You have never thought about them that way, and now, with this situation, you might feel obligated to feel the same. This is usually what happens when you find someone has a crush on you; you might feel obligated to return the feeing back.
Now I’m with you on it not being wrong, but some people view this as not true romance, and they’re right. But Yuuji had already gone that far with Yumiko to save her from father, travel together, I wouldn’t think he wouldn’t have done that if he had not even had feelings for her. This is where sillylittlemelody says there was no romantic tension before the scene, but iirc there sure was with the fighting scenes and the flashback and all that.
Then again I read it a year ago so who am I kidding LOL
If he just started thinking about it from that point, he didn’t really like her. He was just feeling pity, not love.
WHAT THE HECK?! NO! Don’t you know how to say no? I would never feel obligated to return the feelings from someone I didn’t like. Someone likes be, but I don’t, and I won’t. End of story. I know perfectly how it feels to be in love with someone. This is really really bad not just for the one who received the confession, but also for the one who confessed. The first one would have to force himself to date someone he didn’t like and the second one would be in a ‘fake’ relationship, and someday he would find out that the other’s feelings were a lie.
Besides, I would never date a person so stupid to the point that she loves someone like me, lol…
Uh? Friendship? True friends would do this for each other.
[quote=“Purple, post:88, topic:1258, full:true”] This is where sillylittlemelody says there was no romantic tension before the scene, but iirc there sure was with the fighting scenes and the flashback and all that.
[/quote]
The problem is the scene. It was just so unnatural and ugly the way the started the relationship, and they jumped to sex just after that!!!
I dunno, I think where Purple is coming from is totally accurate. For people who aren’t really romantics, somebody else approaching them with something like that really is a great way to trigger a relationship that can blossom into love. There was a scene in Rewrite that worded it well (Rewrite spoilers) I believe Kotarou is talking to Akane about the two of them dating and is being very casual about the whole thing. Akane says something along the lines of, “But it’s not like we really love each other” to which Kotarou says that they’ll get to know each other better though dating, if it doesn’t work out they can just break up, no big deal. Obviously, not everybody has that line of thought, and some people do want a “pure” romance, but in this day and age it’s less common for dating to have such a formal air about it (especially for young people) and you really do see a lot of good relationships built out of something casual.
You’re also assuming that you don’t like the other party, but if they’re confessing to you chances are you’re at least on neutral terms with them, quite possibly even decent terms. A person confessing to you will get your mind going about the possibilities you two could have in a relationship, and if you would like to get to know that person better it’s hard to beat going out. In a scenario like you’re talking about where the person being confessed to actively didn’t want to go out with the other person, well of course you’d just decline them and move on.
What I’m trying to say here is there’s an apparent clash of your romantic ideals versus the more casual ideals presented by @Pik3rob and @Purple . Obviously you don’t need to agree with what they’re saying, but try to at least get where they’re coming from.
Anyways I went rather off topic, but if I didn’t say it somebody else probably would.
I can’t, because it doesn’t make any sense. And just something: a “decent” relationship is COMPLETELY different from romantic feelings. If you just want to know someone better, you become friends with her, not lovers.
And I hated Koatrou/Akane’s relationship anyway. But at least Kotarou did love her, he said that at the beginning of her route
Cant discuss further, cuz off-topic…
I loathe Grisaia on many levels, so bare that in mind with how I’m defending it here. The attitude that you must love someone to date them is really fucked up. Love is complicated. Any relationship involving people is complicated, because people in all their simplicity, are complicated. In my experience, you don’t date someone you love. You date someone to fall in love with them. And sure, what you peeps are talking about does sound like Yuji is being toxic as fuck. But that ain’t exactly… unbelievable or unrealistic. Lots of people have dated people they probably shouldn’t have simply because they were asked out. I did that as a teen. It ain’t that rare, or weird or anything.
People just don’t seem to behave how you think they do silly. Or at least, there are people different from you who will indeed behave like that.
Step one of creating a romance: Make sure the person is thinking about you. If you are in their thoughts, regardless of if it’s for a positive or negative reason, you can turn that into something more.
A confession, even from someone you only ever saw as a friend, can make your feelings change… Especially if you see them every day, and talk to them every day. Especially if they depend on you.
Yuuji was suckered in, and that’s normal.
The VN is trash, and Yumiko’s route is trash, but Yuuji and Yumiko’s romance had grounding.
Pretty standard in UK schools at least.
Agree completely. It would make me hate someone I felt just ‘neutral’ with 
Seriously, I really wanted someone to confess to me, because it meant I could have power over her, I could threaten her, I could make her cry with an evil rejection… hehehe… And it would make me feel really good.
The only thing good about their romance was the romantic scenes, specially the amusement park and their chemistry. No other route had a really memorable romantic scene like that…
@Aegair, @Takafumi, let’s suppose you are right for a moment. This just proves how RL romance is complete trash. A person dating someone he doesn’t like ‘just because’ is totally ugly and SHOULD NOT be included in fictional media. Fiction is used as a escapism, so the best you can do is take the ‘ugly and gross’ stuff away to make things better. So, anyway, Yumiko’s romance still shouldn’t have been the way it was, even if it happens IRL.
That scene was decent, but just that imo. It was mostly just some cute interactions, nothing extraordinary. It’s sub-par compared to Yumiko’s scene.
I would argue that Sachi’s route also had those scenes. Specifically the beach scene.
Fiction is used for far more than just escapism. One person’s escapism also doesn’t have to match up your kind of escapism. Okay?
There is nothing ugly or gross about clunky relationships, about people peopling. Sure people can be ugly and gross, but that really doesn’t subtract from how people can be having wonderful, clunky, fun, confusing, and all in all human relationships.
I can get that that isn’t what you’re looking for in relationships in fiction. But… To be quite honest, most relationships in anime, manga, light novels and visual novels are this idealistic romance you’re looking for. There are similar bollocks in most Western romance fiction as well. Again, I loathe Grisaia, but I’m not sure what you’re criticising it for seems to be one of it’s strongest points.
Grisaia’s strongest points are characters and voice acting imo. Not romance.
But if this kind of romance happens all the time IRL, how could it even be escapism?
Because that kind of romance is always unique. It’s never the same. Plus, just because it happens alot IRL doesn’t mean it doesn’t make good fiction. There’s a difference between living something and experiencing something in fiction.
I think most people would just shrug it off though. Love is casual.
Proves to you. To others, it’s totally fine.
I disagree. Fiction is just a way for people to tell a story. A writer should put their all into a story. Whether it’s their ideals, or the ideals of another; Whether they agree with what they write or not.
Fiction is a method of expression. You can use it as escapism, but it is not limited to that.
I peopled once. Am I a bad person now? .-.
Shounen action shows. Shounen action shows everywhere.
I’d say the characters are a strength and a weakness. You need to like the characters to get enjoyment out of the VN. If you don’t like them, it’s just hours of badly written rehashed VN tropes.
“IRL” is composed of both the rare and the commonplace. Something similar to the norm can still be escapism, because… well, it’s not reality.
Are you guys sure this is the right topic to discuss romance in VNs? This is Grisaia we’re talking about. A game where sex and lewd fanservice have the highest priority. For the most part, romance is just an excuse for H-scenes to happen there.
