Rewrite - Lucia Konohana Route & Character Discussion

[IkaCZ]

Yo I completely respect what you are saying but I want to add one thing.
I think you are overly focused on the fact that its written by Ryukishi.
I mean, if you wouldn’t know it was written by him maybe you would have another perspective of looking at it? I have to agree with lucia going against the plot progression, but on the other hand I like the style of Lucia’s route. It’s more action-ish but I think it fits Lucia’s route. Tbh I cant imagine her route being different than this… or maybe I can but have no idea what it would look like lol.

it tends to be both confusing and pointless when we’re learning about conflicts that do not apply to the main character.

I think this servers as a get-to-know information what is happening in the background and that you will kinda understand the situation - yeah get to know other chars well. I think that is a really good thing because the more you are dragged and know more info, the more it will affect you in an emotinal way imo.

[Takafumi]

I think Ryukishi’s writing is almost always this bad.

One of the least consistent routes, but also my favorite.

The weird Asahi thing was terribly executed at the start, and it didn’t work if you because you expect that the story is either from Kotarou or Lucia’s perspective. Ryukishi flipped into a 3rd person narrative every once in a while, which was jarring.

Lucia in the common route was annoying imo. Lucia in the final conflict scene was annoying too. Everywhere else, she was the best character in the VN. The abandoned building scene, the flowers, the date, the final scene - they were all great. Some of the best scenes in the game right there.

Lucia seems to want to fight against plot progression, and it really hampers the route.

I’d argue that it wasn’t Lucia that wanted to, but the writers. I always say that this is the route where the other writers were like “hey Ryukishi, can you make this route… longer?” Maybe Ryukishi just didn’t know how to end the story. Maybe he just wanted to add more “conflict.”
Lucia, Kotarou, and the villians, all seemingly reject the story’s progression. It’s irritating every-time it happens, ESPECIALLY at the end, where a nice half-an-hour (on auto mode) conclusion took an hour or two longer than it should have. Kotarou was an idiot in this route btw. Would punch if given a chance. Shizuru managed to say what Kotarou should have after a lot of fighting, but still…

The thing that really wins this route over for me, is the date, the music, the CGs, and the voice acting. I actually remember when one of the songs in the ost played in the VN, and I don’t think I can say that for any other VN, soooo… yay?
Yuriha <3

[sillylittlemelody]

Well, Ryukishi felt it should be exactly like Higurashi, and threw in horror elements that felt out-of-place and, in the end, unnecessary. He’s not bad at the emotional parts, but obviously Tanaka and Tonokawa are much better at writing this sort of story.

While the horror was unnecessary, it was at least interesting. Lucia’s route was the only one for me that didn’t have a single boring scene. Much better horror and mystery that keeps the reader attached to the story, than pointless and boring comedy or ichaicha.

Tanaka? Better with emotional stories than Ryukishi? Lucia’s route was the best romance I have read/seen in my whole life. I have never seen any other romance as heartwarming or that touched me as Lucia’s route did. And I can say for sure it wasn’t just because I love Lucia (Mio’s route in LB! wasn’t that good for me, even if she was my favorite heroine.)

Now, maybe Tonokawa can write a route as good or even better than Ryukishi07 (Komari’s route was DAMN awesome, almost same quality of Lucia’s, its only problem is that the romance isn’t explored very much.) But Tanaka? I don’t even need to say how boring and lifeless was Kotarou/Akane relationship in her route. And we didn’t even see her half of the route. The impact of the emotional parts wasn’t as big as it could have been because of this. And Kotori’s route suffered the same problem. While the lack of romance in her route is justified, her route felt like just two kids hurting themselves by playing with fire. And her story is much more utsuge-like than nakige-like. (Don’t get me wrong, I mean, sure it has a happy ending, but it feels more “depressing”)

[Pepe]

When it comes to Lucia’s route I am very… illogical. I can agree that it was dragged out. I can agree that the progression was awkward and sudden. But you know what? I loved every damn minute of it. Like I said earlier:

I think that heavy buildup before it happening was what made it have a greater emotional impact on me.

And I remember it was a really reaaaally long buildup, like, 30 minutes of reading battles and Kotarou trying to figure out what to do. And I STILL believe that if he wasn’t an idiot and figured it out sooner, it would have less of the emotional impact it had on me.

BTW Lucia best tsundere because she actually has dere. All the other famous “tsundere” are just tsun-tsun bitches with bouts of being all shy when their emotions show. That ain’t dere, that’s like tsun-hazukashii or whatever shit. Lucia is both tsun and dere, and it’s done so well.

[Shadowhammers]

OH MY GOD I KNOW. Throughout the entire, Kotarou watching everyone fight and get hurt, I was just like yelling WTF ARE YOU DOING!?!?!!? Like I couldn’t contain my anger and hey, if they were aiming to make people mad about how dumb Kotarou handled things, they fully succeeded. But yeah, he could have honestly stopped everything from happening especially the battle but then that would have greatly reduced how emotionally heavy the atmosphere was.

[Takafumi]

Now, maybe Tonokawa can write a route as good or even better than Ryukishi07 (Komari’s route was DAMN awesome, almost same quality of Lucia’s, its only problem is that the romance isn’t explored very much.) But Tanaka? I don’t even need to say how boring and lifeless was Kotarou/Akane relationship in her route. And we didn’t even see her half of the route. The impact of the emotional parts wasn’t as big as it could have been because of this. And Kotori’s route suffered the same problem. While the lack of romance in her route is justified, her route felt like just two kids hurting themselves by playing with fire.

I’m a bit confused by this. Are you talking overall route quality, or just romance? You say Komari’s route was okay without romance, but the others you criticize for lacking romance.
What you fail to bring up is intention - what is the thing that these routes seek to explore.
Personally I feel like Komari’s route in Litbus was the least interesting. It’s something that Key have done multiple times before, and have done better in the past.
The Kotarou/Akane relationship wasn’t the focus of the route, so it makes sense that it wasn’t romantic. That route was about the effects that such an environment has on Kotarou, Akane, and the planet. It was an original idea, and despite the budget mistakes near the end, it went well. It didn’t want to show heartwarming romantic scenes, because that wasn’t fitting of the route’s atmosphere. Their relationship was boring and lifeless, and that’s exactly how it should be. Very well executed.
The Kotori route, although pretty much just an introduction to the VN, was very well-done romance wise. They are two kids hurting themselves. It didn’t just feel like they were. This was a route where Kotarou was thrown into an unfamiliar world with no method of coping with it. This was a route where Kotori realized exactly how much she’d lost, and how dangerously selfish, and yet selfless, she was in life. They are two indecisive kids who are forced to make decisions.

The intention of the route isn’t how you judge the quality of the route. How they achieved the intention is how you judge the quality of a route. If you are talking about preference, then just say you like lovey dovey heartwarming scenes. Don’t say one writer is better than another because they tried to do different things~

Personally, Tonokawa is the best at the doki dokis right now, but he is very hit-and-miss. Not consistent enough.
Tanaka is a good writer, but he’s not a satisfying writer. I haven’t enjoyed a single thing he has written, but I can’t say they are bad.

And I remember it was a really reaaaally long buildup, like, 30 minutes of reading battles and Kotarou trying to figure out what to do.

At least an hour if you let most of the voices play. 2 hours+ on auto.

By the time the big scene came about, I didn’t care about the emotions, I was just thinking “FINALLY! HE’S BEING LESS OF AN IDIOT!” aaaand then we get a monologue where he tells us what he did wrong as if he is some revolutionary genius… and then he tells us that Lucia thinks this or that… when he didn’t know a single thing about her a few minutes earlier.

[sillylittlemelody]

If you are talking about preference, then just say you like lovey dovey heartwarming scenes.

I don’t. I hate ichaicha.

I’m a bit confused by this. Are you talking overall route quality, or just romance? You say Komari’s route was okay without romance, but the others you criticize for lacking romance.

Komari’s route didn’t have much romance, but at least the route focused on Komari. She was present in almost every scene, and even when she wasn’t, it was something related to her. And even without the romantic aspect, she spent time with Riki and their bond grew. This contributed to an emotionally powerful climax scene.

Personally I feel like Komari’s route in Litbus was the least interesting. It’s something that Key have done multiple times before, and have done better in the past.

I’m not comparing Komari’s route to other previous Key works. Even because I haven’t read any works pre-LB!. I just enjoyed Komari’s route a lot, and it managed to touch me emotionally. I base my ratings on how much a work can bring up feelings in me, and how intense are these feelings. (Of course not only that, the way the story is presented, the characters, etc. But mainly THE FEELS). Komari’s route did a great job with that. (I didn’t cry, but still…)

The Kotarou/Akane relationship wasn’t the focus of the route, so it makes sense that it wasn’t romantic. That route was about the effects that such an environment has on Kotarou, Akane, and the planet. It was an original idea, and despite the budget mistakes near the end, it went well. It didn’t want to show heartwarming romantic scenes, because that wasn’t fitting of the route’s atmosphere. Their relationship was boring and lifeless, and that’s exactly how it should be. Very well executed.

I enjoyed Akane’s route despite the lack of romance. My third favorite in Rewrite. Yes, it gave us a deeper knowledge about Gaia. But if the romance was to be done that way, why put romance in the first place? It felt so unnatural (that kiss came out of nowhere) that it was better that it never happened.

The thing is, @EisenKoubu said Ryukishi07 couldn’t write a proper emotional/nakige-like story and Tanaka was better with this. I’m not comparing overall route quality here, just the emotional aspect of the routes. Komari’s path did not have romance, but it had enough interactions between the two to create a good drama. Akane’s didn’t have this. And Kotori’s was so dark that it was difficult to have this kind of feeeling. It was more utsuge-like.

Personally, Tonokawa is the best at the doki dokis right now, but he is very hit-and-miss. Not consistent enough.

Doki dokis?

[Takafumi]

And Kotori’s was so dark that it was difficult to have this kind of feeeling. It was more utsuge-like.

Huh, I thought Kotori’s route was the cute playful one, similar to Shizuru’s, with some typical Key drama at the end. The only route I’d say is anywhere near Utsuge-like is Akane’s, and even that was too hopefuly for an Utsuge.

Doki dokis?

Feelings.

[sillylittlemelody]

Are you saying ichaicha can apply to non-romantic relationships? I didn’t know that. Still, from the definition, I think ichaicha is okay but just in the common route (it destroys the heroines’ routes when it happens too much, like Kotori’s and Ageha’s routes in IMHHW). And yes, I agree that that was the only scene truly ichaicha in Lucia’s route (but I liked it SO much…) The rest is proper romance.

But if you consider “ichaicha” as just being lovey dovey in public. No, I’m not using this definition. I’m just referring to the act of being lovey dovey or flirting wherever the couple is.

[sillylittlemelody]

@HeliosAlpha

I really don’t understand your usage of that word since it conflicts with the dictionaries I’ve looked at.

I use it for this because there’s no better word to describe this act. Ichaicha seems to be restricted to public places, but I use the term in a broader sense, considering all kinds of lovey dovey and flirtation and such.

The concept this site gives is similar to mine:

Japanese Terminology

[sillylittlemelody]

Uh… Seems like I misused the word “flirting”. I thought it could mean courting someone that’s already your romantic partner. But it doesn’t. Please don’t consider this word in my post.

[EisenKoubu]

[quote=“HeliosAlpha, post:39, topic:653”]
Ryukishi can definitely write emotional stories; Umineko is more emotions than anything else.
[/quote] I should mention how inexperienced I am in Ryukishi’s style of writing. I have only read Onikakushi-hen. The entirety of Umineko is a complete mystery to me. (No pun intended.)

[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:42, topic:653”]
While the horror was unnecessary, it was at least interesting. Lucia’s route was the only one for me that didn’t have a single boring scene. Much better horror and mystery that keeps the reader attached to the story, than pointless and boring comedy or ichaicha.
[/quote]The horror in this route didn’t grab me as much as Onikakushi-hen did. Like I said, he’s better at that sort of story. And I found Chihaya’s route to be more interesting, not to say that this route didn’t have great moments either.

Listen, guys. Despite my complaints, I still very much enjoyed Lucia’s route. The romance was believable, the characterization was good, the music and fight scenes were beautiful, and the conflicts were resolved nicely (although I do have to detract points for Ryukishi recycling the same conflict for the second half of the route). It’s just that this route lacks focus, as well as impact during the horror parts, and I felt that this route could have made Lucia a stronger character than what we got.

[sillylittlemelody]

(although I do have to detract points for Ryukishi recycling the same conflict for the second half of the route). It’s just that this route lacks focus,

I don’t get it. You complain that the route lacked focus, but then you say you didn’t like how Ryukishi recycled the same conflict for the later half of the route. If he threw another conflict, wouldn’t the route lack much more focus? The route was about Lucia’s problems with the poison that lied inside her, all the conflicts were based on this.

I just hate when the writer throws a random Diabolus Ex Machina. It feels totally unnatural and has nothing to do with the story, just to lengthen it.

[Takafumi]

You complain that the route lacked focus, but then you say you didn’t like how Ryukishi recycled the same conflict for the later half of the route. If he threw another conflict, wouldn’t the route lack much more focus?

There’s a difference.

Generally a route has 2 conflicts - one that introduces the route, and one that acts as the ending conflict.
Lucia’s route DID follow this pattern, but in a messy way. It had 4 conflicts, three of which were the same, so essentially there was one introduction conflict, followed by an incredibly long and drawn out conflict.
It was a “okay, we’ve figured it out! But there’s more of the same thing!” The funniest thing about this is that Kotarou even points it out. Near the end, he remarks how the conclusion to the final fight is exactly the same as what he said on their date. They already had the big conflict worked out, but through the magic of plot convenience, Kotarou forgot all of it happened.
The Brenda part took hours longer than it should have, because everyone was already aware of everything needed to reach a happy ending.

It’s similar to (AIR spoilers)the Minagi route, it that it feels like the writers just didn’t know how to end the story or keep it relevant to the VN as a whole.

It lacks focus, and therefore it was unable to reach the conclusion when it should have. Instead, the writer had to add 3-4 hours of extra “content” where new plot devices were introduced, and previous character development was forgotten, just so that a conclusion could be reached. I suspect this is because the route was so distant from the rest of the VN, so they had to quickly add something relating to the whole VN on the end of the route, and come up with a “bad guy” figure, instead of working Rewrite’s world into what had already been written for the route. They wanted more drama, but had already used up the main conflict in Lucia’s character, so they recycled a large amount of the route to get more drama.

[sillylittlemelody]

Generally a route has 2 conflicts - one that introduces the route, and one that acts as the ending conflict.

Can you give examples of routes with this kind of structure? The only one I remember that followed this pattern was Kud’s route from LB! (didn’t like it because it had two conflicts that loosely related to each other).

Lucia’s route DID follow this pattern, but in a messy way. It had 4 conflicts, three of which were the same, so essentially there was one introduction conflict, followed by an incredibly long and drawn out conflict.

1- the horror/mystery of Asahi Haruka

2- Lucia’s poison and its effects

3- Brenda trying to use Lucia to destroy both the Key and the city

4- Lucia’s personal drama

Did I say it right? It doesn’t feel like the same thing for me. All the conflicts are related to each other, as they should be. If they weren’t the route would lack focus, like Kud’s route.

[Takafumi]

Can you give examples of routes with this kind of structure?

In LB: Komari, Kud, Haruka, Rin, Yuiko, Mio.

A few quick examples:
Kud had the english test, the dog and other activities break, and the Tebwa drama.
Haruka had the school council issues, the chiffon cake break, and the family issues.
Yuiko had love love hunters, the date break, and the world’s collapse.

Did I say it right?

The 4 individual conflicts were: The Asami mystery, the failed suppressants, Brenda appearing, and the big fight. The last three of those conflicts are all part of the same arc though.

Conflict 1: The Asahi Haruka mystery, ended by the church vow. This is the introduction to Lucia’s route, and an excuse to get Kotarou close to her, as well as reveal the nature of Guardian to him.

Break: 18 demands, Shizuru the spy, and the city date.

Conflict 2: Finding out that Shizuru is in hospital, and why, ended by the final battle.

Conclusion: They get put in a shelter.

The problem is that during the break moment everything is solved. The only reason the drama kicks off again is because the suppressants stop working, which is then solved by Kotarou repeated what he’d already done during the break.

[sillylittlemelody]

Ooops. 20% of the replies… Guess I have to stop

But now I know what Lucia’s route did so well compared to other routes I’ve read: it had an introductory confict as interesting as the ending conflict, and they DID relate to each other.

[Takafumi]

I’d say the introductory conflict and the break was the better part of the route.

[daysofsummer]

Glad there is a topic about this.

Comfortably Rewrite’s best portion to me. I felt it struck the best balance between romance & other sorts of drama - unlike Akane’s route, which is great but in which the main girl appears too little in my opinion (and Akane has always been my favorite, she’s one my top waifus haha).
Lucia’s route has that perfect mix of sweetness and heaviness, it makes her character much more touching and lovable. When I started Rewrite I didn’t like her so much, but playing her route I was charmed. It features some of the most memorable scenes of any Key game if you ask me, especially that scene one the rooftop!! I played that one over & over again because it was just so glorious and timeless.

Thanks Ryuukishi07 for the highlight of that unfortunately inconsistent visual novel - I shall never forget the masterpiece that is Lucia’s route. I can’t find the words to express how much I loved it; to me it’s as good as a VN route can get. It was so emotionally impactful, one has to play it to understand - for all the romantic moments that made my heart melt, there were equally tearjerking instants of unforgettable drama.

I think I’ve said it the best I possibly can… all hail Lucia’s route!

[Kotarou]

Happy birthday Lucia I hope in another world, you’re on a date with Kotarou celebrating your birthday He would want the poison, if you know what I mean