Nakige (Crying Game): Opinions and discussion

Off-Topic
#1

Considering Key’s works falls into the Nakige genre, I say we do a discussion about this genre. If you don’t know what Nakige is, it’s basically a sub-genre of visual novels that makes the player feel for the characters and cry during the game’s emotional moments in order to leave an emotional impact on the player after the game is over. Notable examples of this genre include the Key’s works but other examples include Ef: A Fairy Tale of the Two, Hope ~ Symphony of Tomorrow, Kana~ Little Sister etc.

Now I’ve only read two visual novels of this genre, which are Planetarian and Little Busters. So I don’t have a solid opinion on the genre as a whole. But from what I’ve read, I think the genre has potential of creating some great story and characters when done right.

In any case though, what are your guys thoughts on the Nakige genre? What do you like about the genre and what do you hate about the genre? If you can, provide some examples of visual novels of the Nakige genre that you’ve read and if you have to spoil their respective story elements, please use the [spoiler] tag.

With that said, let the discussion begin.

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Key's influence inside the VN and anime market
#2

I thought this one was utsuge, not nakige…

Regarding the genre, I find it awesome how it makes you cry but there’s always a happy ending. Most Western media can’t do that.

#3

I see. It was listed as an example in Wikipedia but okay. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_novel#Nakige

#4

Well, not all of them planetarian

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#5

The nakige is the best kind of story for the visual novel medium. A lot of Japanese media has these morals and hidden meanings that make you really think about what is going on, but a lot of what makes plots engaging is not the interpretation of it all, but the emotion. Emotion creates motion in a story. Without emotion, characters are flat, dull and uninteresting, and it leaves the plot in a rut. So, it makes sense for nakige to focus on two extremes of emotion: happiness and sorrow. The plot begins lightheartedly, as characters take time to chill and flesh out their personalities. Then, in the middle of everything, something bad happens and suddenly all the happiness is replaced with sorrow. Characters cry, people die, and protagonists try to break through the wall of sorrow to renew their happiness. Although not all nakige ends happily (especially when it comes to bad ends), it’s customary for the story to end on some sort of high note (which is how Key Magic came to be).

As to how I came to love nakige in the first place, let me start at the beginning. My first visual novel was Sakura Wars: So Long, My Love for the PS2. The game is divided into eight ‘episodes’, each of which (save for the first and last two episodes) focuses on a single character as Shinjiro tries to figure out what is burdening them. There are several points in the game where you genuinely feel something for the characters, and I suppose that’s where my love for nakige began. In particular, Episode 3 focuses on Rosita’s tragic backstory where she lost her father during a rainstorm. She develops some sort of trauma because of the incident, and she struggles with her self-worth after failing to protect her teammates in battle. In one of the most tragic scenes in the game, Shinjiro eventually finds Rosita, who has taken upon herself a hikikomori lifestyle, and intends on starving herself to death for her failures. Thinking about it now makes me tear up inside… :’(

#6

So me and Yerian had a great conversation dealing with nakiges and the use of sex.
http://pastebin.com/vgwMnsgN
I apologize in advance for my spelling.

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#7

I think we need to clarify something here. Nakige all follow a set story structure: a funny and comical first half, followed by a romance based section, which leads into some sort of separation or loss, finally coming back into an emotional reunion. The point here is to get people to cry during the reunion scene. If you go by this description, not even all of Key’s games are nakige(you might be able to stretch planetarian into one if you bring in the implied continuation, but Rewrite sure as hell is not one).

In contrast, utsuge may be distinctively sad by nature, but they are not specifically designed to make people cry. Basically, a nakige will always have a happy ending, regardless of what happens in the middle, whereas an utsuge might not.

As for my opinions on the genre, I find them to be a bit stale. Not that they’re bad, in fact they’re usually pretty good, it’s just that once you get to know the genre its a little bit predictable.

[quote=“Inuconandoyle, post:1, topic:1006”]
provide some examples of visual novels of the Nakige genre that you’ve read
[/quote]believe it or not, the main route in the new Yuzusoft game has a nakige structure. I didn’t even notice until basically the end of it, but I still thought it was interesting.

[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:2, topic:1006”]
Most Western media can’t do that.
[/quote]There’s actually an arc in Doctor Who that follows a nakige style. I couldn’t tell you which one it is, since I don’t watch the show, but my friends made me watch a few episodes of it with them one time and I distinctly remember it being like a nakige. I bet there are a lot more out there like it, but I don’t have any other examples off the top of my head.

[quote=“yerian98, post:4, topic:1006”]
Well, not all of them planetarian
[/quote]wait, people think Planetarian had a sad ending? I bet they think Tomoyo After had a sad ending too!

[quote=“EisenKoubu, post:5, topic:1006”]
The nakige is the best kind of story for the visual novel medium.
[/quote]I disagree. basically every aspect unique to the VN medium that nakige have, charage use better. Not saying that charage are better of course, just using it as an example.

[quote=“EisenKoubu, post:5, topic:1006”]
Although not all nakige ends happily
[/quote]uhh. it’s literally defined in the genre; if it ends on a sad note that basically immediately disqualifies it from being a nakige.

[quote=“raiyan, post:6, topic:1006”]
So me and Yerian had a great conversation dealing with nakiges and the use of
[/quote]damn. I really want to read this at some point, but it’s so looonnng and I don’t have much time right now… I might come back and comment on it later.

#8

Is that clarification correct? It sounds very out-of-date. ~10-15 years ago, sure that’d have been about right, but I think the term has changed since then, especially around the time of Clannad

To me, Nakige’s only set structure is comedy/lightheartedness > drama > relief > drama > positive conclusion.
planetarian would be a Nakige, because the ending is more hopeful than it is sad. I’d say it’s positive. The characters are better off at the end than they were at the start.
Rewrite definitely is one. I’m not sure how you could consider it not to be one. I’d also say Tomoyo After is one, although that has more arcs than standard because it’s largely a single route.

A Nakige aims to make people cry, but it tries to have a positive outlook. An Utsuge is similar, but instead of wanting you to cry, it wants you to feel hopeless. There might be hints of comedy every now and then, but it’ll always have a negative outlook. It might have a “happy” ending, but the characters will always be worse off than at the start.

They aren’t mutually exclusive. “Nakige” describes a commonly executed pattern, and “charage” describes a focus.
You get a lot of Nakige that are also Charage. One is a structure, and the other is a story focus.

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#9

But the concepts of “sad” or “happy” endings are different among people regarding certain stories. For example, would you consider AIR had a happy or sad ending?

1 Like
#10

Rewrite? I don’t think Key’s purpose in Rewrite is to make the reader cry. If it is, they did a pretty bad job. Not saying Rewrite is bad, actually I find it awesome, but I don’t think it’s a nakige.

#11

Are you telling me, that you didnt cry in Rewrite? If yes, then wow you have to be one of those that dont cry that fast. Rewrite had so many moments that made me cry and it did good.

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#12

No, I didn’t. Not a single tear. Lucia’s route really moved me (best character route I’ve ever read), but it was nothing to make me cry.

If Rewrite is a nakige, then what explains its low success compared to Key previous games? I don’t think it was JUST the lack of Maeda in the writing.

#13

This is a dangerous question to ask. We start transforming Nakige from a term to an opinion. I could argue that AIR isn’t a Nakige because it didn’t make me cry at all, but we all know that it is one. We could start saying that only specific routes are Nakige.
What matters is intention.
If (Rewrite spoilers) they didn’t intend for the Shizuru end, the Chihaya backstory, the hard life of Lucia, the Akane finale, and the double death of everyone Kotori loved, to make people cry, then it isn’t a Nakige.

No H, dying industry, large release gaps, no Maeda. Bunch of reasons.
It’s not like it wasn’t successful though. It did pretty great. IIRC it was one of the top sellers of it’s year. You can’t just compare Rewrite’s sales to the past Key VNs. Compare it to the VNs released around the same time.

#14

If you’re talking about the routes, I can agree that they are nakige-like. But as the visual novel as a whole, I wouldn’t say it’s a nakige, because the main route (Terra) would have also been like this, and it wasn’t. Not saying it wasn’t emotional. It was, but the character routes were far more nakige-like than Terra. Because of this, I prefer to see Rewrite as an ecological and philosophical VN, rather than a nakige.

#15

Why can’t it be both? Just because it has those themes, doesn’t mean it can’t follow a pattern.

Terra had it’s big moments. I can think of three from the top of my head. It might not have been a tearjerker in your opinion, but it clearly followed the Nakige pattern, and it’s clear that tearjerking was the intention of multiple arcs within Terra.

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#16

It can be both, but I think they put more focus on the philosophical aspect than on the tearjerking one.

But was the main focus of Terra the tearjerking aspect? There were moments, but the whole Terra wasn’t built in this concept, or was it its main purpose. If it was (I have no reason to believe so), then they did a pretty bad job. Even the heroines’ routes were more emotionally powerful.

#17

Nakige is actually a subgenre for VN that sells. And now I believe emotion sells more than sex.
When emotion in invoked, we’re trapped to believe that this (anime/VN/manga) is good. So in recent anime/manga/VN/Hollywood movies/general literature/everything there seems to be a rise in dying/sick/overall sad theme, for drama, whatever. For example, The Fault in Our Stars - which failed to make me cry maybe because I read too much Key.

The truth is, I cry quite easily but I can’t remember crying in Key VNs except for CLANNAD. So if we generalize nakige as “something that can make me cry”, then I can’t even consider LitBus, planetarian, Kanon and Rewrite as one. Ok, there were sad moments and they were definitely made to make us cry, but somehow I just couldn’t cry reading them. Most of the time they only made me frown in depression.

#18

Nakige has never been something that appeals to me until it actually hits. The tag isn’t something that I have much consideration for. Similar to how people react when someone tells you “Watch/read this, it will make you cry”, I don’t find that too alluring, not exactly the first thing most people think of when wanting to enjoy themselves.

I do tend to have a habit of over-estimating my levels of emotional stability and every time, even when warned with the nukige-tag and find myself feeling something unexpected. Perhaps that has some kind of appeal in itself. I believe that it’s selling point could partially lie in it’s unspoken challenge for their audience to maintain their composure, close to what horror movies can offer.

#19

Rewrite got me once and it was a bit unexpected and it may say more about how I bond to certain characters but it got me with (Rewrite spoiler) Chibimoth’s death scene

I for one try my best to avoid looking at tags for the VN’s I’m wanting to play. If I go into a VN blind knowing nothing about the story and see the tag Nakige I’m already mentally bracing myself because I know that impact is coming so I would rather go in not expecting anything and being surprised best example I can pull off the top of my head (G Senjou no Maou spoiler) the scene in G Senjou when you are released from prison and Haru walks up to you with the little girl, everything about that was set up perfectly I was expecting the sledgehammer to fall until she called him “daddy” . Of course there are exceptions going into any Key game I’m going to know what I’m getting into so my argument doesn’t really stand when you company is built around that particular genre.

For me its a bit like going into a reading a new manga and seeing the tag “tragedy” on it, I know something is going down before I ever start reading it and it gives me time to prepare for it which I don’t want and can actually kill a story twist which happened recently with a manga I’ve been reading. To me the strength of an emotional impact is most of the time tied into the surprise that comes along with it. Another example (Clannad Spoilers) I had been spoiled on Clannad After Story going into it so I knew about Nagisa so her death scene didn’t do much for me, but the scene in the sunflower field hit me like a truck because I didn’t see it coming.

#20

Those things have been extremely popular in the world of books for (at least) as long as I’ve been alive. They always have the same fancy font on the front! Some are fiction, some nonfiction. Some are written as a diary or a callback, others written as a present-tense story.