There’s soooo much more to romance than just being the same thing. My best example is the Kyou route from Clannad. That was purely romance-focused and pretty different from the usual sorts of romance you see in Visual Novels. I have so many potential ideas for romance in Suginami’s route, as well XD
It’s pretty hard to expect the situations you’ve been into to also apply to other people. People are different, and while you may not be able to find reason in your attraction, I might think otherwise. And so would any other characters in a story.
I think I get what you mean. There is a reason, but this doesn’t mean Riki and/or Suginami know that.
Perhaps this happened to me too. The one who loves is never able to tell why he fell in love, because he can’t disconnect the emotional aspect. I could never understand why I fell (more than once) for my childhood friend (more childhood than friend), because I actually think she’s a bitch, but despite that, I fell for her
There are many ways to present romance, but don’t you think these many ways would get overused some day if all VN routes were romance-focused? Since there’s a limited number of romance plots, it would end up being basically the same thing not among all the routes, but among groups of them.
I think if you can tell why you’re in love, then you’re not in love. Love is an emotion, not an equation. It can’t be linked to logic or reason if you’re the one feeling it.
Have you read many romance VNs? They all start to blur together in my mind.
Generally they are a compilation of the same stories with ___ drama moment or ___ fantasy plot device.
That… doesn’t make sense. Emotions ARE linked to logic and reason.
I’m angry because that guy overtook me.
I’m happy because the weather is nice.
I love because the time we spend together is enjoyable.
I hate because the time we spend together is unbearable.
An unexplained emotion is an uncertain emotion. Follow uncertain emotions and ruin yourself.
This kinda makes sense. But I am always certain when I fall in love. I think about the person all the time, butterflies in the stomach, and the other trashy illusions.
But even if you can connect these emotions to reasons, doesn’t mean the same applies to love. Why do you love your mother? You can’t say it’s simply because she is your mother. And if you say because she takes care of me, loves me, helps me… Doesn’t it sound a little egocentric?
I think two random people can always fall in love, with no exceptions. The reason? Acquaintanceship. I don’t know if I used the correct word, but in portuguese this means the act of knowing each other, talking to each other, living day by day with each other. There isn’t a reason why do specific people fall in love, but as a whole is the same thing. This is why we love our family. Even if our families weren’t the same they are today, we would love them the same way.
Kind of like how comedy ends up becoming repetitive I’m not saying that I want all routes to be romance-related. I want Suginami’s route to be romance related specifically because she friggen confessed to Riki. She fell for him without him having to make any choices to make himself closer to her. That’s gotta stand for something in the romance department, at least.
Must I repeat myself? It’s pretty hard to expect the situations you’ve been into to also apply to other people. Just because you think it is that way doesn’t mean you can enforce that thought on other people, especially when it comes to emotions.
A lot of romance VNs are the same stories, with small differences. The same events, but with a fantasy backdrop, or a musical theme, or a school drama.
A lot of people get suckered in by caring for family because they are family, but love doesn’t happen without a reason.
My mother wasn’t good enough, so I moved. Love is, to put it harshly, convenience.
Love is generally all about your own ego. You love a person because they are fun to be around. Or because they make you feel happy. They might compliment you lots, or take care of you. They make you feel like you are needed.
There’s nothing wrong with that, despite what some may say. Doing what’s best for yourself is fine and natural, as long as you aren’t fixated on it or obsessed with it.
People don’t continue to talk to each other if they don’t enjoy talking to each other. There’s a reason.
You might view love as this mysterious poetic thing, but at it’s essence, it’s the exact same. You might not see the reason, but your subconscious, and the people around you, both see the reasons. It’s nothing fantastical… It’s human.
There’s a common phrase, that love blinds. That’s not always a negative thing though.
Love blinds you from reason, because love is the process of becoming reliant on everything about a person. If you are clearly aware of a reason, you will fixate, and that love will never become anything more.
The emotion only succeeds when it can grow, and replace reason. It masks reason, so that it can become.
Eventually, if it is successful, you can see reason again. Hundreds of little reasons, or a bunch of big ones. All the reasons that amass to “everything.”
I don’t love my family, but I have no reason for it. I simply have no reason.
Upon gaining one reason to love, you have affection.
Once that reason becomes more grounded in reality, you get friendship.
When the reasons multiply, and those become grounded in reality, you get love.
Naturally, you might have multiple reasons instantly. “Love at first sight.”
When those reasons appear in a person, and your mind becomes certain that those reasons exist, then you get love.
Love isn’t random. That is an insult to anyone in love. Perspective may make it hard to see, but reason is there somewhere.
If you are ever asked by your partner why you love them, you should never say “just because.” If you don’t have a reason, you don’t have a resolve.
Aaanyway, on the Mutsu route focus thing, there is an important aspect to Litbus that needs to be taken into consideration.
Riki.
This route would need to be about Mutsu AND Riki growing, otherwise it wouldn’t happen.
Mutsu has her problems. She’s shy. She’s in a group of bullies. She confessed to someone she has never spoken with.
Riki is shy (in a different way.) He’s protected by his group of friends. He is juxtaposing his current situation with what happened to Rin. Will he just let Kyousuke turn her down? Can he turn her down guilt free without Rin being there to confess instantly? Are those the things Riki would do?
Riki needs to learn courage in this route. He needs to be willing to try something new. To gain focus on what it is he wants. Up until now he has never really made his own decisions.
Mutsu has already built up her courage. She needs reassurance. There is charadev as Mutsu goes from confessing to, to actually spending time with, Riki
They both need to deal with being parts of conflicting groups.
They both may need to deal with the secret of the world.
I was writing something for Valentines, but got lazy and didn’t finish the synopsis. The brief idea is over on the appreciation topic.
I never said you were. Just because you said stuff about Kyou’s route… But, whatever. I get what you mean and I agree that Suginami can be romance-focused.
This must be why I can’t understand. I’ve never experienced this kind of “explainable love”, so I think I would never understand.
If by romance VNs you mean VNs that the main plot is the romance, I’ve never read something like this.
Love is… Damn boring IRL. I do think there’s something wrong with that. I don’t enjoy this concept (don’t mean you’re wrong). That’s why I learned how to not fall in love. It’s just an illusion, and boring. It’s not perfect, like in fiction. I don’t want love in my life anymore. I prefer to spend my time with other stuff than with this useless thing. Besides, I’m already married to Lucia, so, no space for other girls.
But about Riki/Suginami subject, okay, I agree that love can have a reason, but it doesn’t mean it has to. So there’s no problem with Suginami falling for Riki out of nowhere.
That would probably make sense. These are the VNs you mindlessly read for a laugh. Not the things you’d get recommended usually.
Really? I think love would only be boring if life was. Of course, that’s all subjective, but I think you are being a bit too negative
That’s not something you really learn. Falling in love is an act of doing. Not falling in love is… nothing. That act doesn’t really exist as anything beyond a phrase. You can’t learn nothing~
Perfect is, again, subjective. A working romance would usually be labeled “perfect” by those in love. If it isn’t perfect then that might not be love.
VN romance has it far from perfect imo. Tropey, dramatic, 2d (hah) and in some cases, it can be cringy.
I do like dating sims, they are nice filler, but they are also essentially a task list. You never get time in fiction to just sit and be happy, because it has to keep going. If it stops, the immersion is broken. That doesn’t happen in life. You can enjoy every moment.
Fiction lacks the immense atmosphere, and the experiences aren’t as rich.
VN romance misses a lot. It’s a good story telling device though.
Oh, yeah. A reason isn’t integral to a plot. Why she started to like him doesn’t matter, so long as the romantic scenes show why the two like each other presently.
I learned to “avoid” falling in love. I don’t get too close to other girls and avoid thinking about them too much. For example, my childhood friend mentioned above. I really think she’s a bitch, and I would have no advantage by liking her. But I know that if I get closer to her or if I think too much about her, I will definitely fall for her again. This happened three times, I think, but now I learned to control it, and it never happened again.
But the thing is they exclude what’s unnecessary and boring. I find these moments boring. IRL love can’t exclude the unnecessary parts, so the boring parts are still there. Every time I see I couple IRL I think to myself: "How boring… I would never want something like this.
And there’s no guarantee there will be fun parts in the real life romances. It’s not always that dramatic love triangles, beautiful confessions among the sakura trees… will happen. This stuff is thought and planned. But IRL, this is different. The romance can be just ichaicha and financial discussions. Summarizing, EXTREMELY boring.
It’s not like I think love would never work for me. I simply find it boring and have no interest in it. It’s like you are hungry, but in front of you there’s a dish you know you won’t like the flavor. So, you can eat, but you can choose not to eat, too. Well, I prefer not to eat. My utopia has always been loneliness.
I was thinking of creating a love topic. This discussion took other path whose main focus isn’t Suginami’s fan story. But I dunno… a love topic would be really strange and I don’t think it fits the community.
coughwhitealbum2cough
That right there is considered a Kamige which is heavily romance-focused. Even opening chapter alone is pure romance and is just absolutely amazing.
But yeaaaaah as much as I would like to disagree so much with the views of “love” presented here, that’d be too much out-of-hand. My only suggestion is to not discount love and at least let yourself experience it firsthand. And I mean the mutual sort of love that you would get from a relationship.
A general Love discussion thread about it and our respective (mis)conceptions would be great for a change.
Then again, I dunno if opening a new thread or let the mods do it
Back on topic. Romance could be a focus of Suginami’s route, but also, there’s the issue of seeing the “dark side of a group of friends where people gather to bully other people/groups”
I would love to see a route with a similar idea to this. For example the route is seen from Suginami’s perspective instead of Riki’s so we get to experience her looking across at a group of friends that seem to have that something that she has been searching for and hasn’t quite found. I would love a story that explored a character that is caught up in a bad friendship but due to whatever reasons is hesitant to leave that group for fear not of backlash but of isolation. I found myself in a similar situation one time which basically amounted to sell out my friends to a bunch of people that I couldn’t have cared less about but were present at the time, or isolate myself in a group in order to maintain my own integrity…man what I wouldn’t give to have an ounce of writing ability.
[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:30, topic:316”]
Lol. There’s no guarantee I will ever get this chance. And I have no motivation to do so. I’m perfectly happy single.
[/quote]Avoiding turning this into Dr. Phil corner I will leave just one comment on this section and advise to keep an open mind. Often we become complacent in the position we are in in life not knowing that something even better is waiting for us. New experiences are not inherently bad and tend to find us when we are least looking for them.
That’s way beyond what I was talking about. WA2 is actually good.
I think the problem I’d have with this (aside from it being different from Litbus) is that it requires a lot more work on Mutsu’s character. You need to plan out her whole outlook on life… sounds like a lot of work~
Yeah it doesn’t have to be LB exactly Suginami just happened to be the convenient comparison being on topic already, but I could see it working as like a spin off fan disc ala Kud Wafter style. Those normally have a tendency to break the original games mold anyway don’t they. lol
I just had an idea. What if Suginami had had a crush on a boy when she was younger? Then, she confessed to him and they started dating. But, her family forbid her because she was poor, then they put her in that boarding school, so she could never see that boy again.
She started liking Riki, because he was similar to that boy. But at the same time, she is afraid to suffer the same pain, by somehow losing Riki, and she’s afraid to confess.
Later in the route, when she had already confessed to Riki, the previous boy can show up again and… Bam! Love Triangle!
Not half-bad! Although with the way you describe it, I am getting the feeling that Mutsumi’s heart still lies with the boy from the past, and the “right” choice might be to let her go.
But before the love triangle happens, she starts spending time with Riki. So, she starts falling for Riki himself, and when the other boy shows up, she’s not in love with him anymore.
There has to be the moment that Riki finds out about the other boy, though. And this has to be after they start dating and before the boy shows up, because if it’s about the same time of the latter, it would be too complicated: before Suginami could decide between them, Riki still had to put up with the situation and decide about his feelings.
I’m not saying that I want all routes to be romance-related. I want Suginami’s route to be romance related specifically because she friggen confessed to Riki. She fell for him without him having to make any choices to make himself closer to her. That’s gotta stand for something in the romance department, at least.
