This is a topic where you can post examples of traits, structure, story, soundtrack or anything within these two media that were clearly influenced by Key. We all know that famous works influence other following works.
What similarities can you find in some VN/anime that can be linked to Key? What did a writer /illustrator /composer say regarding this?
Example Ryukishi07 said that he was influenced by Key when writing Hiragushi…
If I’m not mistaken, Key created the nakige genre, and from the nakige the utsuge was born. I also remember from the Tangles podcast with Aspi, that Kanon was one of the first not-dating-sim type VNs. The common structure of most VNs today come from it.
In what way was Ryukishi07 influenced by Key in Umineko? Can someone explain it to me since I’m too lazy to think about it (get it cuz it’s Umineko… I’ll just stop now…)
It’s Hiragushi, sorry. He used the Key formula, but changed it a bit. Instead of giving the reader tears, he added horror elements in the later part of the story.
While I’m not sure if the writers for either have said anything I feel both Anohana and Your Lie in April take some elements from Key. Also (at least in the anime, wait for SP before reading the VN) I thought Sachi’s route in The Fruit of Grisaia was almost way too heavily influenced by Kotomi’s in Clannad.
First, Key did not technically create the nakige genre. If I had to point to someone, I would say Leaf with To-Heart, which came out in 1997, one year before Tactics created ONE, and two years before Key created Kanon.
That said, it is widely agreed that Key is the one who popularized the genre, due to Kanon’s, and then later AIR’s, huge success.
I won’t argue the nakige-utsuge thing here (we already have a [topic for that][1]), but I will say I disagree with utsuge being born from nakige, as if implying that Key indirectly spawned this “tag” as well.
You’ll also remember from the Tangles podcast that the guy who talked the most said he had never played a VN and that he knew next to nothing about them, and that Aspi said he didn’t remember a lot of the details. Nothing against any of those guys (I loved the podcast), but all of them were kinda making assumptions without doing much research.
The main problem with your statement is that many people wouldn’t consider dating-sims to be VNs. But again, not an argument to have here. Either way, Kanon wasn’t really one of the first. If you’re willing to include “Sound Novels” in the same category as visual novels, then you can go back to Chunsoft’s Otogirisou in 1992. But even if you don’t you’ve got both YUNO from Elf and Shizuku from Leaf both in 1996. And there are certainly other games from before and after that that just aren’t well known at all and thus aren’t worth mentioning.
[1]: Nakige (Crying Game): Opinions and discussion
He mentioned it in an interview in the “Untold History of Japanese Video Game Developers” – he adapted the Kanon formula (he called it a “4-act structure”) for Higurashi.
Doesn’t say anything about Umineko in this regard, though.
I’m not considering all dating-sims VNs. But there are dating sims that are also VNs. (but it’s more rare nowadays). Those games were more popular before.
Guess I’ll refrain from using “one of the first” and “created”. Let’s just say Key popularized the nakige genre as you said and popularized that structure with Kanon.
Angel Beats! was aired one year before, so perhaps this can be true.
Know what? All those anime like Nagiasu, Your Lie in April, Little Busters!, even Glasslip, etc. they’re similar because they usually stand out and there are few of them in one season. They are some kind of Japanese “teen drama” (someday they will have a name, probably). Perhaps all those anime were influenced (not originated) by Key later works (LB! and AB!)
Dating-sim type? You mean… romance? If you take out the sim part, it’s just a romance VN.
I’d say AIR is more deserving of that title. Kanon and ONE were both a safe mix of traditional themes and fresh ideas.
I believe they did.
ONE was definitely inspired by To-Heart, but the Nakige genre didn’t exist then. The formula was invented when Kanon was, and that was when the genre came to be. A genre doesn’t exist without enough material to warrant it, and the hype of Key’s formation, and of it being “different” was the origin of the genre.
Now, you might say that just because the genre wasn’t defined, doesn’t mean To-Heart wasn’t of that genre. If we go by that standpoint, then YU-NO would probably be the first one imo, but that’s debatable.
Basically in reply to this entire paragraph:
Yes, this is the “you usually can’t pinpoint where and when a genre actually ‘started.’” In fact, even when you can, the genre technically didnt exist then because, well, you explained why. Basically, my point was, “I don’t think its entirely correct to give Key 100% of the credit for the existence of the genre today.”
(Besides, I dont believe that the ‘formula’ is necessarily required for a VN to fit into the nakige ‘tag’, but again, wrong topic for that discusssion)
[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:9, topic:1167”]
My focus is actually on the sim part, so you can’t take it out.
[/quote]Well then most certainly, no, as I said, Kanon was not one of the first to do this. One of the first that was popular enough to still be remembered and adored today? Absolutely positively. But it wasn’t something Kanon helped to start.
If there is anything that I feel Key contributed to the genre, it was the “Unlock multiple routes to obtain a true route” sort of thing. Correct me if I am wrong, but AIR seems to be, if not the first, the one that popularized that whole structure. AIR was pretty damn big when it was released; and for good reason. From then on, quite a few VNs adopted that structure in order to somehow make more than just a romance VN, but one with an overarching plot.
