No, I think that Clannad was a pure love story because that was that was its point, while that wasn’t Grisaia’s point.
I’m not gonna argue about it at this point (because I haven’t read one yet), but I think its still entirely possible to have a pure love story and have H-scenes in the same VN.
I’m sure of it as well but in my experiences, most H-scenes in VNs are there just because they can be there and offer little to no plot or character development.
I really like that analogy! Though it can be argued that eroge are meant to be spicy to begin with 
oh FUUUNNNN… this thread is back…
[quote=“Shadowhammers, post:118, topic:401”]
I consider visual novels basically a story being told from the protagonist point of view and in some VNs, a love story. It’s like when you ask your friend on how he met his girlfriend and how the relationship started and progressed. The friend basically tells you the story and ignores all the sex he had with her
[/quote]VNs aren’t usually told “to” you, they’re told “as” you. as in first person, not second person. I don’t know about you, but in a first person viewpoint, its pretty hard to NOT think you’re having sex while you’re having sex…
[quote=“Shadowhammers, post:118, topic:401”]
Which is one of the things that makes Clannad a better, pure love story than say for example, Grisaia no Kajitsu.
[/quote]Nice opinion! wanna hear mine? (hint: you don’t)
[quote=“Naoki_Saten, post:120, topic:401”]
As far as I’m concerned, spicy things don’t belong into a pie unless the maker is REALLY skilled and capable of using them in a way that they’ll harmonize with the ingredients.
[/quote]I don’t think pie should ever be spicy, but I really like this metaphor. I would also go on to say that there are probably a lot more good cooks than most people realize, but I guess that’s just opinion.
[quote=“yerian98, post:122, topic:401”]
but I think its still entirely possible to have a pure love story and have H-scenes in the same VN.
[/quote]I definitely agree, it just takes a bit of looking sometimes.
[quote=“Shadowhammers, post:123, topic:401, full:true”]
I’m sure of it as well but in my experiences, most H-scenes in VNs are there just because they can be there and offer little to no plot or character development.
[/quote]You haven’t played many new age VNs, have you? this is something that was basically the norm 2 generations of VNs ago, and was still very present in the last generation of VNs. More current VNs are looking to write them in better, but unfortunately most of them are only in Japanese at the moment. (as far as I know, Rewrite was the first VN from the current generation to be translated, and we don’t have many more beyond that if I remember correctly)
The protagonist is as much a character as everyone else. It’s pretty hard for me to be a character that’s nothing like me. First Person, to me, is like someone telling me their thoughts 24/7.
No matter what perspective a story is told from, the narrator is a character to me. I am not the narrator.
I’m pretty sure most people have more empathy than that… or maybe it’s just me… I don’t know, I can’t read minds most of the time…
regardless though, if someone is telling you their thoughts 24/7 they’re probably not going to leave out the saucy details…
More empathy than that? If you’re reading Rewrite and Kotarou does something badass you’ll think to yourself, “Man, Kotarou’s a badass.” and not “Man, I’m a badass.” Even if what the protagonist does is a result of a choice I make, I don’t feel like it’s me making a choice, it’s just me changing the path that the protagonist goes down. Little Busters does not follow LinkThinks, it follows Riki. If Riki is feeling sad, well, who’s to say that I’m also feeling sad?
I could go on but you get this gist of it.
Yeah, I guess we’ll just go with I am abnormally empathetic then, because I DO think to myself “I’m a badass” when that stuff happens… I thought I wasn’t the only one, but maybe I am…
While I completely understand this analogy, and I somewhat agree with it, in reality I think some cinnamon and some cayenne pepper would go really well in, say, a chocolate pie. But, who knows, maybe that kinda just adds to the point of the analogy.
[quote=“Takafumi, post:126, topic:401”]
No matter what perspective a story is told from, the narrator is a character to me. I am not the narrator.
[/quote]Hmm, there are some cases where I agree with this fully, where I can say, sure, I understand why someone like him would do/say/feel such a thing, but thats probably not what I would do/etc… But there are also some times when I feel like, if I were put in that situation, I would have done the same. I guess I sometimes find myself trying to really get in the head of the protag so I can experience everything just as he does
You aren’t. I got praised as of recently due to having that attitude while a friend of mine was watching Daitoshokan and I made mention of thinking the protagonist to be myself. And yet he’s right there on the screen.
I think that totally adds to the analogy. Chocolate pie is good but if you add the right spice, it becomes interesting. Not necessarily better, but interesting.
And I guess most people agree with that analogy. It is quite good indeed.
I just wish people would stop trying to deny something being spicy or keep thinking that being spicy is a bad thing.
I don’t like pastry (so I hate pies) and I don’t like H-scenes, so this analogy works!
Good placement and skill are the key here. Unfortunately, almost all VNs with H-scenes I’ve played until now use a borderline porn logic when deciding on the timing of the H-scene. More often than not, sex happens 10 seconds after the confession, blowing all romance and tension to smithereens.
So I’m totally looking forward to those new age VNs @MalignantSeraph is talking about, cause for now, those sound like a too-good-to-be-true pipe dream to me.
The problem isn’t if the H is bad or not, its more of why is it in there? It sure as hell isn’t in there for the story most of the time… Usually they just force it in, because well that is the market. I’ve only read 2, Air was one, and really that one didn’t bother me much at all, very low amount, in air’s case I would say it was pretty indifferent, if it had it or not. But I feel that sometimes they are just like oh we need this in, smashes it in. Doing that certainly does effect the quality. I mean in my eyes its just the same as fan service in anime. It can make a show shit but if they don’t get too distracted it won’t be bad. They have to build a story and not just use cheap things like that.
[quote=“Mow, post:135, topic:401”]
well that is the market.
[/quote]there ya go, answered your question for ya.
If you know anything about marketing though, people tend to buy higher quality products when two are offered at around the same price, which should make sense. What that means, however, is that just throwing in H scenes will eventually become invalid over time, since games with better blending can offer higher quality. Also, H scenes are not cheap to produce. Combining all the art, casting, and writing(awful or not), they can arguably be the most expensive scenes in VNs.
Unfortunately in an industry with diminishing sales, playing the long-game isn’t favorable.
You might be a bit too literal there. I think Mow was saying that it’s ‘cheap’ because it’s a easy way to increase sales without increasing the quality of the VN.
Really only the authors can answer the question of “why is it in there?” It could be that they just inserted it to be able to sell it as an adult game, or they intended it to be part of the story. Though it can sometimes be obvious which of the two it is xP
The only problem with that is why would they want to sell it as an adult game over a teen game? Wouldn’t they be decreasing the potential amount of buyers by increasing the age gate? Correct me if i’m wrong, but off of the H-scenes in VNs i’ve been looking at, I have yet to see one H-scene that is part of the story besides rape H-scenes.
You seem to have gotten the message wrong. At least, that’s not how Japan looks at things 
But hey, sales are dropping heavily so maybe that old logic doesn’t work anymore
Yeah probably. I’ve seen some documentaries about the relationship and love industries in Japan. I can honestly say with 100% confidence, their line of thinking is not the same as it is in the states. Might be the reason why H-scenes are more accepted in Japan(?)
