H-scenes in Visual Novels: Opinions and discussion

Off-Topic
#102

Hey guys guess what! THAT’S RIGHT! I brought all of our favorite discussion back up!

In all seriousness, ANN recently interviewed Gen Urobuchi, and guess what they talked about. RIGHT AGAIN! Sex scenes!

ANN: You’ve worked on several visual novels that contain explicit sexual content. A common opinion in the Japanese PC game market is that a game needs sex scenes to sell. Do you find that the ability to include sexual content in these stories gives you more creative freedom, or do you feel pressured to add superfluous erotica to help a game sell?

Urobutchi: My first and foremost thought when creating something is “I want to make something that’s interesting.” That’s what makes me feel happy and creatively satisfied. If sexual elements help in making something interesting, then they’re not pointless.

I’ve played a lot of Nitro+ visual novels; Saya no Uta is probably one of my favorites because it’s just so outright weird. What especially struck me is that though the game features sex scenes, they come off as being horrifying rather than titillating.

Oh, thanks for the compliment! laughs That was part of the intent, since horror can definitely be a component of a sexual experience.

So… I’m just gonna wait to give my thoughts until I hear what you guys have to say. DISCUSS!

1 Like
#103

The fact that Urobutcher thought somebody finding his work horrifying as a compliment is what incited a bigger reaction from me :stuck_out_tongue:
Good that we got some info from somebody who has worked in the industry. From his statement, can we assume that if it doesn’t help in making something interesting, then they are pointless?

#104

Essentially “I want to make something that raises interest,” or “I want to make something that people will buy.”
H-Scenes aren’t pointless if they raise interest in the game, so it sounds like he agrees with the “game needs sex scenes to sell” bit - at least, with how I interpreted his words~

3 Likes
#105

Depends on the game, depends on the scene ect ect. I played air and it didn’t bother me at all. I am playing Grisaia no Kajitsu honestly the H-scenes just sort of bores me cause I am not into it, it’s like I see all this stuff that doesn’t really interest me and I am like tldl. But I know others enjoy it so I just deal with it for now, there isn’t really a clean version of that game translated as far as I know, there’s one coming tho. I could even say I enjoyed some of the “stuff” in air, because it just was nice and short, mostly some of the hidden scenes I found entertaining and funny.

#106

Regarding Air’s H scenes:

Kano: Enjoyable
Minagi: Somewhat bad. Doesn’t help the fact it appears in the Bad End
Misuzu: …can’t tell points at avatar
Uraha: While sex has an utility there because inherited mission, was it necessary to describe it with every detail?

#107

When making the All-Ages patch, Minagi and Uraha’s were easily erasable. The whole scene could just be removed. Misuzu’s had character development for Yukito so the scene had to be edited a bit, and Kano’s had actual story and plot development in both the H-scene and the Yukito fantasy scene, so they are more censored than removed.

#108

First, I feel that the interview was very fitting to our conversation, as several people have mention Saya no Uta as an example of where the H-scenes were very much an important part of the story.

Second, Yay, Senpai agrees with me!:

Third

[quote=“Takafumi, post:104, topic:401”]
Essentially “I want to make something that raises interest,” or "I want to make something that people will buy."H-Scenes aren’t pointless if they raise interest in the game, so it sounds like he agrees with the “game needs sex scenes to sell” bit - at least, with how I interpreted his words~
[/quote]I personally think you’ve twisted his words here. He didn’t say “raises interest” he said “is interesting.” Thus the progression becomes “H-scenes aren’t pointless if they make the game interesting” so it sounds like he agrees with “sex scenes should actually develop relationships and plot and shouldn’t just be erotic fap material” bit. Not trying to be oppositional or obnoxious here, I really just interpreted it differently from you.

1 Like
#109

It depends on who his audience is. Who does he want to take an interest? Himself? The Japanese Eroge market? Just normal readers who may like the genre he is writing in?
H-Scenes are interesting to people who like Eroge (I’d assume) and they are less interesting to some others.

It seems like his answer was just very vague.

1 Like
#110

I’d agree with both of these. Indeed, most interview answers end up being vague.

And, while we will never actually know, it seems to me when I think about it that Urobuchi does seem to write just about stuff that interests him. Anime, VNs, light novels, he just seems to do whatever he feels like, which is why it seems to me that most of what he puts in is not for the purpose of getting the material to sell, but rather because he enjoys writing about it and sharing his stories. Or maybe im just glorifying the artist here. Like I said, each situation is different and we’ll never really know what he was thinking when he specifically wrote something.

#111

Now that we’re talking about Urobuchi, let me throw in another quote from him that just might shed a bit more light on his attitude in these matters. It’s from the Postface of the Fate/Zero Light Novel (Volume 4). As some of you might know, Fate is the work of Nasu Kinoko, but Fate/Zero has been written by Urobuchi Gen. He uses this opportunity to talk about “re-creation”, as in making spin-offs and extras to a finished original work (like how F/Z is to F/SN).

So his position seems to be something along the lines of: “Even if you hate to see the original being abused or twisted for commercial reasons, that ‘abuse’ yields money that people live from. As a mere consumer, complaining about it is irresponsible.”
And that should apply for H-scenes, too. You don’t have to agree with them being there, but you shouldn’t condemn them, either if they help the game sell.

When, however, Urobuchi himself is involved, he can make a difference.

Saya no Uta had H-scenes, but they were by far more meaningful than your average eroge fap material H-scene.

Well, I don’t agree with him 100% but that certainly is a very mature view of the situation.

#112

It might just be a Japanese thing, but I haven’t seen anyone complain about the F/SN remakes in the west… Kinda makes all of his ramblings seem pointless.

I’m condemning the fact that some VN creators need H-scenes in their VNs to get sales, and that they are willing to create scenes that could potentially lower the standard of the whole VN if written incorrectly (which is quite common.)
But as I said earlier…

[quote=“Takafumi, post:11, topic:401”]
I think we’d all agree that without H scenes fueling the scene, the companies we know today wouldn’t be here.[/quote]

Not sure how that fits into the rest of the post since Saya no Uta wasn’t a re-creation… but yeah. Everyone has agreed that Saya no Uta is a rare example of H-scenes that tried to be meaningful (and of course were meaningful for some.)

#113

The quote I used was about re-creation, but it could be projected on other things, including H-scenes. Urobuchi just doesn’t condemn stuff that helps the sales even if it’s bad for the overall image of the fictional work in question.

#114

I guess I can understand this position. I cant remember if its been mentioned in this topic before, but the fact is that most people in this industry get paid shit. Until VNs can be proven to consistently sell without H-scenes just as well as they do with them, they are going to be necessary in many cases.

I think what Urobuchi was trying to get across though, is that because _____ (re-creations, h-scenes, etc.) are necessary, he wants to work to make them worthwhile instead of just saying ‘well, thats stupid’

#115

Just completed Anzu’s route in Da Capo II. I kinda feel conflicted about a certain H-scene there.
Did anyone here play Da Capo II? Do you think that scene was… justified?

General Visual Novel Topic
#116

Ah, I forgot about that!
Despite all the hate I give Da Capo (even though it was pretty good for it’s time) I think that they generally do well on the white-haired girls routes. The quiet one from DCI was pretty decent. I drew her a few years ago~ Anzu’s route was probably my favorite in DCII.

I’m sticking with my previous argument in that the story could have still worked perfectly without H-scenes, but I won’t ignore the fact that they put effort into it. I think it was as justified as it can be; they linked it with the story. I still dislike it, but I can understand if some feel it adds to the story.
Personally, I loved the meanings of Anzu’s route. Da Capo routes all kind of blur together for me, but IIRC (I might be wrong here. Might accidentally spoil another route.) that was the one that talked about the limits of a relationship that is purely mental or physical. How there are some things that can only be achieved through speech, and other things that can only be achieved through contact. I think that was Anzu’s right? I like that. The memory stuff was great too. I’ve been a big fan of the forgotten protagonist trope since ONE, so I always like a route that plays it coughAnegocough.

#117

[quote=“Takafumi, post:116, topic:401”]
I think that was Anzu’s right?[/quote]

Correct.
After calmly thinking about it for a while, I’ll have to agree with you. While the execution of the scene was questionable, it was a legitimate, meaningful part of the route. Though I think they should have elaborated on the “limits” part a bit more and mentioned it more often to make clear that it’s a topic of this route.

I also happen to be a sucker for memory-related stories ^^

1 Like
#118

I consider visual novels basically a story being told from the protagonist point of view and in some VNs, a love story. It’s like when you ask your friend on how he met his girlfriend and how the relationship started and progressed. The friend basically tells you the story and ignores all the sex he had with her (at least the non-perverted ones do) because it’s unethical. That’s how I see H-scenes in VNs. Like in Clannad it was implied that Tomoya had sex with Nagisa in order to have the baby. Could you imagine if they actually had showed the process of it?. Which is one of the things that makes Clannad a better, pure love story than say for example, Grisaia no Kajitsu.

#119

I wouldn’t say that the lack of H-scenes is what sets Clannad apart from Grisaia. Clannad was designed to tell an emotional story, and Grisaia was just another installment by an eroge developer. Clannad was created by a well-regarded company that gets lots of sales, and Grisaia was written by a company whose last fairly successful product was in 2007.

2 Likes
#120

I already stated my opinion about H-scenes, but if I were to describe it with a metaphor, getting an H-scene while reading a VN feels like tasting tabasco sauce after taking another bite into a cream pie. As far as I’m concerned, spicy things don’t belong into a pie unless the maker is REALLY skilled and capable of using them in a way that they’ll harmonize with the ingredients. Otherwise, those spicy things have a potential to ruin the pie for me. I don’t completely and utterly hate spicy food but that’s not what I’m eating a friggin’ pie for! If I feel like eating spicy food, I pick a spicy dish. One that was meant to be spicy to begin with.

So it’s kinda annoying to try and work around the spicy part to properly enjoy the pie (or just ‘endure’ it).

btw, is there an all-ages patch for Da Capo II? If so, I’d totally recommend that one as well…

1 Like
#121

I doubt it. That’s a couple of companies that pride themselves on using H-scenes for money. You can’t even buy the English localization of the VN without being flooded by nsfw adverts. It’s a fun VN though. The obligatory male comic relief character is pretty good, and I have a lot of great memories of the ski trip scenes.