H-scenes in Visual Novels: Opinions and discussion

Off-Topic
#41

Hmm… I think nudity can be okay depending on how it is presented, and how people think of it. I’d still prefer to avoid it, but it’s bearable~ Reproduction is just yuck though, and the person I like sees the subject even more negatively than me ^^; She hates humanity full stop. Very scary woman~

Let’s see… Option to turn H-Scenes off? Check. Originating from 4chan? Check. A gimmick that people would say “Oh, Japan!” to? Check. Youtubers playing it for a laugh? Check. An audience largely unaware of romantic fiction? Check. In English, for free, with a simple download? Check.

When asking people who discovered it how they found it, one of the above is usually the answer~ (and I’ve seen a lot of people walking around with KS T-Shirts over here in the UK.)

#42

@Takafumi and @Bizkitdoh Hypothetically, do you think including H-off option in all VNs would increase the market all that drastically? I will give you the 4chan part though, I truthfully forgot about that.

#43

Drastically? Probably not. But it would be helpful. Reasons being more people being confident in marketing it to others via word of mouth and for people like Taka who just do not want it and would feel more comfort in knowing that VNs where it is excessive it won’t be a problem or a deterrent.

The reason I note that it wouldn’t be all that drastic is because good VNs without H-Scenes already exist. Key and 5pb/Nitroplus for example, which can get people to love VNs enough (because they’re awesome) to be willing to read a VN with H-Scenes and skip them if they don’t want to see it. However, not everyone may like those VNs. Going on the fact that there is no H-Content alone severely limits your ‘entry level’ VNs. Thus, H-Scenes are an unavoidable hindrance because you simply do not change a whole societies mindset so easily. I can’t even get people to watch anime!

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#44

Yeah, think it would be helpful too. I guess my question was more aimed at Taka who seems to think H-scenes are really hindering the market.

-Sigh- Thats a very different but even more important topic. This is the exact reason I have to get on forums to talk to people.

#45

I definitely think it is hindering the market… and honestly, I think it hinders the market more in Japan than it does in the west. While content like that is slightly frowned upon in the west, the west is becoming increasingly involved with the internet, video gaming, and Youtube. The stereotypes people once threw on gamers are fading rapidly - apart from in the TV industry’s eyes. As such, all the other strange content popularized by the internet are becoming accepted more.
There may be a lot of people who shy away from VNs or even anime because of the perverted nature they show to the eyes of the unknowing, but you get one slightly popular Youtuber to mention it, or get it onto the front page of reddit, and lots of people will try it because the internet said it was worth it. H-Scenes are a hurdle in the west, but it appears to be a lot worse in Japan.

In Japan the stereotypes aren’t going away so quickly, and the prevalent type of Japanese VN is pure Eroge. (We have a good mix of English translated VNs.)
You will already be labeled as an Otaku for reasons including: watching anime after your childhood has passed, playing computer games instead of going out, or just wearing a backpack and jeans.
For the most part, you are expected to play out as a child, study as a teenager, focus on work as a young adult, settle down and start a family as an adult, and take care of your parents when you become a parent yourself. It’s a very family-based lifestyle. You shouldn’t be wasting that time playing a porn game.
Sure, this is slowly passing, but not following the expected lifestyle in Japan is frowned upon much more than in western countries.

…
Citation needed…

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#46

Very good point. I guess I kinda assumed you were referring to the west previously. As much flack as we sometimes get in the west for being fans of anime and VNs, their popularity over here is growing, while in Japan, otaku has negative connotations. I find it very strange and hard to remember that our hobby is often looked down upon much more in the country it comes from.

#47

So basically all I see here is your real complaint. That you don’t like sex in and on itself. More than likely you take offense in characters engaging in it due to your disgust, therefore pinning far too much bias of this disgust into your thoughts.

So there’s no logic in arguing with you, since you can’t stand the “where babies come from” part of the story.

#48

Just my ten “centavos” (cents, but for lesser currencies):

From what I can recall, there seems to be a breach between Key fans from “Clannad and above” era, and the more veterans who started with Kanon, Air or even One (in the Tactics era); the latter frowned upon the idea that Clannad won’t include ero scenes because grew up with them in Key works. That line of thought spawned Tomoyo After

The former, on the other hand, avoid the H-scenes of most works like a plague, deeming them as unnecessary or even detrimental to the characters or the stories

Edit: phallacy detected. Not all veterans liked the ero, nor all novices despise them u.uU

The peak of such a struggle was Little Busters! First, came the non-ero one. Veterans complained harder than in Clannad. Then LB!EX happened. Novices complained. Then came other versions and the idea of having to appeal to new markets against appealing to the seasoned customers who were there since the beginning. Don’t ask me what spawned Kud Wafter!

That reminds me: do your opinion of a character rises, lowers or remains equal after seeing an H-scene or a Rule 34 of such character, VN or otherwise?

#49

Remains equal, for me. Like I said, I don’t see anything wrong with it, and I won’t think any less of a character because of it

#50

I am equally confused by this VN. I tend just to ignore it.

[quote=“JDAM_Cid, post:48, topic:401”]
That reminds me: do your opinion of a character rises, lowers or remains equal after seeing an H-scene or a Rule 34 of such character, VN or otherwise?
[/quote]If you had asked me a few weeks ago, I would have told you I couldn’t even take stuff like Tomoyo After, where a character from a previously all-ages VN is given H scenes, with or without new story. It would have completely ruined the vibe I got from the source, in this case Clannad. However, recently I’ve found myself much more understanding why thats done and how it doesn’t ruin the characters.

When it comes to rule 34, I don’t tend to look at that stuff (but I know that sometimes the fan art is so bad it feel almost like a different character anyway). I wouldn’t say my opinion of the character is necessarily lowered, but it certainly often feels demeaning to the creator of those characters and their stories

#51

I want to assume it was the choosing roommates thing and the Riki reaction was so hilarious they were just like… “ah why not”

#52

Well yeah. This is Opinions and discussions. I said my opinion was that it’s disgusting, and that’s pretty much it. I left that there. The rest of what I’ve said is my ways of avoiding them, suggestions for ways to go about the themes presented in H-Scenes without going full H, and the effect H has on different parts of the world~
I’m not arguing my opinion at all - it’s a pretty stubborn opinion after all~
I’m not sure you’ve even argued with me through this thread though… so no worries there~ :stuck_out_tongue:

#53

Rule 34, no. The internet is the internet.
H-Scenes however -might- bother someone, I think, but again they don’t bother me personally that much. It depends on how it’s handled. (Tomoyo After and Kud Wafter are examples of the character being used as a tool and it not seeming like a natural story, to me)

Again, sex is natural and most people do it at some time, as far as I’m concerned. So in my views, it does not bother me.

#54

Have you actually read Tomoyo After? Just wondering because I used to think about it the same way until I learned what the story really was about.

#55

Oh, no, I love Tomoyo After. Just the beginning of that VN was really silly. There’s comedic value to it and all, but that whole segment wasn’t necessary at all to me. I’m speaking -just- about the beginning, here.

#56

Ahh, gotcha. Yep totally can agree with that.

Btw what the hell is this message for WordPress!?

Let others join the conversation
This topic is clearly important to you – you’ve posted more than 20% of the replies here.
Are you sure you’re providing adequate time for other people to share their points of view, too?

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#57

Wow. Wordpress? How rude. -3-

Back on topic: It felt like a very blatant, “this is a thing for Tomoyo fans, so lol fan service,” with how it was thrown in right at the beginning there. Also coming off of Clannad, which was wonderful without having any of that at all. Very unnecessary to me. >.< If someone read Clannad and loved Tomoyo’s character, then I could totally see how they would be thrown for a loop upon wanting to read TA.

#58

Japan is becoming increasingly accepting of otaku culture, arguably faster than here in the west. (though the reason for this is very political, that doesn’t change the fact that it’s happening)

and what do you mean by “pure Eroge?” do you mean like Nukige? or just VNs with H scenes in them? because of course VNs that have H are more common, that’s part of the medium. Nukige however, are a completely different topic that this topic probably doesn’t even apply to.

[quote=“JDAM_Cid, post:48, topic:401”]
That reminds me: do your opinion of a character rises, lowers or remains equal after seeing an H-scene or a Rule 34 of such character, VN or otherwise?
[/quote]I think this is entirely dependent on what happens during the H scene and how well it’s done. There are some H scenes that have completely changed my viewpoint of a character, but I don’t think I have a general response to just an H scene coming up.

#59

I suppose it’s also my time to answer this. The only person that a Rule 34 has ever made my opinion of the person drastically increase has been my dislike of Riki since all his trap nonsense. Other than that, I typically do not search for it but know it exists, and it will not affect me on other characters.

As for H. It has done both. Some protagonists I tend to dislike in their involvements of H scenarios -coughEushullycough- and I did have the scenario of disliking Tomoyo further because of hers (remedied by some of the rest of her After Story). But yeah, in case you couldn’t tell by now, it’s only amplification of my hatred if it is a scenario I did not want. Otherwise I have not found an H scene that’s made me like a cha… >.> nevermind, there’s been one.

#60

…Go on… :smirk: