H-scenes in Visual Novels: Opinions and discussion

Off-Topic
#110

I’d agree with both of these. Indeed, most interview answers end up being vague.

And, while we will never actually know, it seems to me when I think about it that Urobuchi does seem to write just about stuff that interests him. Anime, VNs, light novels, he just seems to do whatever he feels like, which is why it seems to me that most of what he puts in is not for the purpose of getting the material to sell, but rather because he enjoys writing about it and sharing his stories. Or maybe im just glorifying the artist here. Like I said, each situation is different and we’ll never really know what he was thinking when he specifically wrote something.

#111

Now that we’re talking about Urobuchi, let me throw in another quote from him that just might shed a bit more light on his attitude in these matters. It’s from the Postface of the Fate/Zero Light Novel (Volume 4). As some of you might know, Fate is the work of Nasu Kinoko, but Fate/Zero has been written by Urobuchi Gen. He uses this opportunity to talk about “re-creation”, as in making spin-offs and extras to a finished original work (like how F/Z is to F/SN).

So his position seems to be something along the lines of: “Even if you hate to see the original being abused or twisted for commercial reasons, that ‘abuse’ yields money that people live from. As a mere consumer, complaining about it is irresponsible.”
And that should apply for H-scenes, too. You don’t have to agree with them being there, but you shouldn’t condemn them, either if they help the game sell.

When, however, Urobuchi himself is involved, he can make a difference.

Saya no Uta had H-scenes, but they were by far more meaningful than your average eroge fap material H-scene.

Well, I don’t agree with him 100% but that certainly is a very mature view of the situation.

#112

It might just be a Japanese thing, but I haven’t seen anyone complain about the F/SN remakes in the west… Kinda makes all of his ramblings seem pointless.

I’m condemning the fact that some VN creators need H-scenes in their VNs to get sales, and that they are willing to create scenes that could potentially lower the standard of the whole VN if written incorrectly (which is quite common.)
But as I said earlier…

[quote=“Takafumi, post:11, topic:401”]
I think we’d all agree that without H scenes fueling the scene, the companies we know today wouldn’t be here.[/quote]

Not sure how that fits into the rest of the post since Saya no Uta wasn’t a re-creation… but yeah. Everyone has agreed that Saya no Uta is a rare example of H-scenes that tried to be meaningful (and of course were meaningful for some.)

#113

The quote I used was about re-creation, but it could be projected on other things, including H-scenes. Urobuchi just doesn’t condemn stuff that helps the sales even if it’s bad for the overall image of the fictional work in question.

#114

I guess I can understand this position. I cant remember if its been mentioned in this topic before, but the fact is that most people in this industry get paid shit. Until VNs can be proven to consistently sell without H-scenes just as well as they do with them, they are going to be necessary in many cases.

I think what Urobuchi was trying to get across though, is that because _____ (re-creations, h-scenes, etc.) are necessary, he wants to work to make them worthwhile instead of just saying ‘well, thats stupid’

#115

Just completed Anzu’s route in Da Capo II. I kinda feel conflicted about a certain H-scene there.
Did anyone here play Da Capo II? Do you think that scene was… justified?

General Visual Novel Topic
#116

Ah, I forgot about that!
Despite all the hate I give Da Capo (even though it was pretty good for it’s time) I think that they generally do well on the white-haired girls routes. The quiet one from DCI was pretty decent. I drew her a few years ago~ Anzu’s route was probably my favorite in DCII.

I’m sticking with my previous argument in that the story could have still worked perfectly without H-scenes, but I won’t ignore the fact that they put effort into it. I think it was as justified as it can be; they linked it with the story. I still dislike it, but I can understand if some feel it adds to the story.
Personally, I loved the meanings of Anzu’s route. Da Capo routes all kind of blur together for me, but IIRC (I might be wrong here. Might accidentally spoil another route.) that was the one that talked about the limits of a relationship that is purely mental or physical. How there are some things that can only be achieved through speech, and other things that can only be achieved through contact. I think that was Anzu’s right? I like that. The memory stuff was great too. I’ve been a big fan of the forgotten protagonist trope since ONE, so I always like a route that plays it coughAnegocough.

#117

[quote=“Takafumi, post:116, topic:401”]
I think that was Anzu’s right?[/quote]

Correct.
After calmly thinking about it for a while, I’ll have to agree with you. While the execution of the scene was questionable, it was a legitimate, meaningful part of the route. Though I think they should have elaborated on the “limits” part a bit more and mentioned it more often to make clear that it’s a topic of this route.

I also happen to be a sucker for memory-related stories ^^

1 Like
#118

I consider visual novels basically a story being told from the protagonist point of view and in some VNs, a love story. It’s like when you ask your friend on how he met his girlfriend and how the relationship started and progressed. The friend basically tells you the story and ignores all the sex he had with her (at least the non-perverted ones do) because it’s unethical. That’s how I see H-scenes in VNs. Like in Clannad it was implied that Tomoya had sex with Nagisa in order to have the baby. Could you imagine if they actually had showed the process of it?. Which is one of the things that makes Clannad a better, pure love story than say for example, Grisaia no Kajitsu.

#119

I wouldn’t say that the lack of H-scenes is what sets Clannad apart from Grisaia. Clannad was designed to tell an emotional story, and Grisaia was just another installment by an eroge developer. Clannad was created by a well-regarded company that gets lots of sales, and Grisaia was written by a company whose last fairly successful product was in 2007.

2 Likes
#120

I already stated my opinion about H-scenes, but if I were to describe it with a metaphor, getting an H-scene while reading a VN feels like tasting tabasco sauce after taking another bite into a cream pie. As far as I’m concerned, spicy things don’t belong into a pie unless the maker is REALLY skilled and capable of using them in a way that they’ll harmonize with the ingredients. Otherwise, those spicy things have a potential to ruin the pie for me. I don’t completely and utterly hate spicy food but that’s not what I’m eating a friggin’ pie for! If I feel like eating spicy food, I pick a spicy dish. One that was meant to be spicy to begin with.

So it’s kinda annoying to try and work around the spicy part to properly enjoy the pie (or just ‘endure’ it).

btw, is there an all-ages patch for Da Capo II? If so, I’d totally recommend that one as well…

1 Like
#121

I doubt it. That’s a couple of companies that pride themselves on using H-scenes for money. You can’t even buy the English localization of the VN without being flooded by nsfw adverts. It’s a fun VN though. The obligatory male comic relief character is pretty good, and I have a lot of great memories of the ski trip scenes.

#122

No, I think that Clannad was a pure love story because that was that was its point, while that wasn’t Grisaia’s point.

I’m not gonna argue about it at this point (because I haven’t read one yet), but I think its still entirely possible to have a pure love story and have H-scenes in the same VN.

#123

I’m sure of it as well but in my experiences, most H-scenes in VNs are there just because they can be there and offer little to no plot or character development.

#124

I really like that analogy! Though it can be argued that eroge are meant to be spicy to begin with :stuck_out_tongue:

#125

oh FUUUNNNN… this thread is back…

[quote=“Shadowhammers, post:118, topic:401”]
I consider visual novels basically a story being told from the protagonist point of view and in some VNs, a love story. It’s like when you ask your friend on how he met his girlfriend and how the relationship started and progressed. The friend basically tells you the story and ignores all the sex he had with her
[/quote]VNs aren’t usually told “to” you, they’re told “as” you. as in first person, not second person. I don’t know about you, but in a first person viewpoint, its pretty hard to NOT think you’re having sex while you’re having sex…

[quote=“Shadowhammers, post:118, topic:401”]
Which is one of the things that makes Clannad a better, pure love story than say for example, Grisaia no Kajitsu.
[/quote]Nice opinion! wanna hear mine? (hint: you don’t)

[quote=“Naoki_Saten, post:120, topic:401”]
As far as I’m concerned, spicy things don’t belong into a pie unless the maker is REALLY skilled and capable of using them in a way that they’ll harmonize with the ingredients.
[/quote]I don’t think pie should ever be spicy, but I really like this metaphor. I would also go on to say that there are probably a lot more good cooks than most people realize, but I guess that’s just opinion.

[quote=“yerian98, post:122, topic:401”]
but I think its still entirely possible to have a pure love story and have H-scenes in the same VN.
[/quote]I definitely agree, it just takes a bit of looking sometimes.

[quote=“Shadowhammers, post:123, topic:401, full:true”]
I’m sure of it as well but in my experiences, most H-scenes in VNs are there just because they can be there and offer little to no plot or character development.
[/quote]You haven’t played many new age VNs, have you? this is something that was basically the norm 2 generations of VNs ago, and was still very present in the last generation of VNs. More current VNs are looking to write them in better, but unfortunately most of them are only in Japanese at the moment. (as far as I know, Rewrite was the first VN from the current generation to be translated, and we don’t have many more beyond that if I remember correctly)

#126

The protagonist is as much a character as everyone else. It’s pretty hard for me to be a character that’s nothing like me. First Person, to me, is like someone telling me their thoughts 24/7.
No matter what perspective a story is told from, the narrator is a character to me. I am not the narrator.

4 Likes
#127

I’m pretty sure most people have more empathy than that… or maybe it’s just me… I don’t know, I can’t read minds most of the time…

regardless though, if someone is telling you their thoughts 24/7 they’re probably not going to leave out the saucy details…

#128

More empathy than that? If you’re reading Rewrite and Kotarou does something badass you’ll think to yourself, “Man, Kotarou’s a badass.” and not “Man, I’m a badass.” Even if what the protagonist does is a result of a choice I make, I don’t feel like it’s me making a choice, it’s just me changing the path that the protagonist goes down. Little Busters does not follow LinkThinks, it follows Riki. If Riki is feeling sad, well, who’s to say that I’m also feeling sad?

I could go on but you get this gist of it.

#129

Yeah, I guess we’ll just go with I am abnormally empathetic then, because I DO think to myself “I’m a badass” when that stuff happens… I thought I wasn’t the only one, but maybe I am…