You need to read the other routes to appreciate Haru’s too, despite the route order not being enforced.
Indeed. More often than not, other VNs don’t care much about side routes, except when they’re necessary to set up the true route story-wise. But Key is always giving all routes their best effort.
- The only side route element with such an effect that comes to mind would be the plot holes that prevent the reader from reaching a certain conclusion that would lessen the impact of a certain plot twist.
- Why did Taka of all people bother to read the ‘time-wasting’ side routes of G-senjou?
1 Like
One of the final scenes links back to other routes. It’s emotional, but only if you’ve read the other routes.
Because they were routes just as much as Haru’s was. Just because one is arguably better than the rest, it doesn’t mean the rest shouldn’t be read. It was a multi-route VN, not a single route VN with bad ends.
[quote=“HeliosAlpha, post:199, topic:108”]
Kyouhei I presume. I hated that. It felt like they only introduced it so Kyousuke and Haru could get together smoothly, putting the sex scene immediately after didn’t help. You being the bad guy was the biggest plus for me so I was really disappointed when they removed it.
Isn’t it a bit unfair to put so much blame on the the story just because it didn’t go the way you wanted it to? It’s a matter of preferences, really.
[quote=“Takafumi, post:200, topic:108”]
Totally wasn’t a plot twist. Just bad writing.[/quote]
It was the opposite of bad writing. Using foreshadowing in order to bait the reader into a certain conclusion, then surprise him by overturning that conclusion he’s been hanging on for the most part of the VN is a pretty smart move that I don’t see often. The foreshadowing was so blatant BECAUSE the whole thing has been planned out from the beginning.
The one thing you could regard as bad writing would be the plot holes in the side routes concerning Maou’s identity, but even those were kind of a tactical traid-off. They sacrificed consistency of the less important side routes for the sake of empowering the true route.
Again, G-Senjou is a VN where reading or not reading the side routes doesn’t make much of a difference.
I don’t quite get where that arrogance comes from, to claim that it’s bad writing, that the plot twist wasn’t planned beforehand, that it was an ‘excuse’ to enforce a certain development.
I agree with @Naoki_Saten on the G-senjou plot twist. The baiting into reaching that certain conclusion was really well-done. I’m guessing you’re referring to the extremely convenient coincidences that made said baiting even possible, but even so you had to turn a blind eye to even worse inconsistencies to keep Kyousuke = Maou, most specifically Maou’s age and the fact that Kyousuke’s mental condition problem is way, WAYYY more convenient than a few coincidences. Side note, what explicit plot holes are you talking about?
On Sharin no Kuni, I will agree that the Ririko plot twist was very well handled and didn’t rely on coincidences and conveniences to work in the way G-senjou did. But on the other hand I found the “Houzuki and Kenichi lying about their disabilities” plot twist to be weaker. Especially the fact that Houzuki didn’t even consider the latter struck me as odd.
The writer Looseboy just messed up. G-Senjou’s development wasn’t smooth.
They wrote a bunch of routes in which Kyousuke was Maou and then while working on Haru’s route the writer had a burst of inspiration for the conclusion and changed all of the routes (apart from Tsubaki’s) to fit this. The “twist” is an attempt to cover up the fact that they re-wrote the whole story outside of the first route. It continued to get messy, and so they just said each route is in it’s own canon. Kyousuke is Maou in some, and not in others.
This was released in the vfb, which had a limited print. Not sure if you can get a copy anymore.
G-Senjou is one of the 2 VNs I’ve rated 10/10… but I can’t say it was well-written.
I wouldn’t even call that second one a twist. It’s just something that happened…
I actually never had that impression, that the canon changes depending on the route. It’s just more convenience and for the sake of protecting the twist it was barely explored, but it wasn’t like Kyousuke = Maou in the routes.
There were several scenes in the side routes that were contradictory to the truth of Maou’s identity. Several scenes that I don’t quite remember suggested that Maou just couldn’t be anyone but Kyousuke.
Maou didn’t execute his plan in any of the side routes for unknown or highly questionable reasons.
In Kanon’s (I believe) route, Mephisto has been beaten to death by Gonzou’s men for a shallow reason whereas this didn’t happen in the common route beyond the branch point.
At one point in the game, Mizuha has been kidnapped by a classmate. The story branches off into Mizuha’s route if Kyousuke decides to immediately call the cops, who then swiftly take care of the case. However, in the common route, it turns out that Mizuha and her abducter were hiding in a completely different building, so the police shouldn’t have been able to ‘take care’ of the matter.
What the heck is a vfb and how reliable a source is it? Did the writer straight-up confess all this stuff?
Hmm, I interpreted those differently.
[quote=“Naoki_Saten, post:210, topic:108”]
Maou didn’t execute his plan in any of the side routes for unknown or highly questionable reasons.
Tsubaki’s Route has a time skip straight over Maou’s plan so it could’ve been executed. Kanon’s Route ends way before Maou’s plan would have happened. Mizuha’s route is the only one where this is a potential problem; it also has a time skip when Tokita disappears, but Maou’s plan should’ve happened at around the same time. Since it didn’t I’m just assuming it happens a bit later and falls right into the time skip. Either that or the failure with the abduction plan delayed Maou’s plan somewhat.
In short, I think it’s very possible that the plan did happen in the extra routes, but for the sake of protecting the twist we simply are not shown that it did.
Okay I’ll have to give you this one. That was a pretty silly piece of plot convenience.
Actually I remember that a bit differently. As far as I recall, if you call the police at that point in time the abducter is still in the school; he would only make his escape to a completely different building thereafter.
I remember there being a few other common complaint points, but even with those I never really had a problem piecing it together somehow to fit with the main story. And as long as I can do that, I can’t really complain.
“Bad writing” is not a term I want to use but the twist felt like they used a loophole to get out jail for free. Since I read all routes in order the foreshadowing felt to narrow to allow extra possibilities so I assumed the obvious. Before Tsubaki’s route started though I guessed the right answer but dropped it later.
Throughout the story you build up emotions on what Maou has done(I presume guilt if you’re a decent human being). Then the twist is basically the writer casting Supreme Verdict on all those emotions and expect it to be fine. Converting that mess of emotions into anger towards the new enemy really didn’t work for me. I felt cheated because fucks I gave were nullified. I guess that’s similar to how many people react to the ending of the Clannad anime.
Since links in spoilers apparently don’t work [Supreme Verdict][1]
[1]: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=253512
http://www.hlj.com/product/SDN01145/Boo
Visual fanbook. It was an official limited-print compilation of bonus G-Senjou stuff. They did it for Sharin no Kuni, but that had even less copies made.
The interview should be reliable, but since I don’t have a copy, I can only go by second-hand information.
I wasn’t trying to imply that the other routes shouldn’t be read I was saying there was an obvious difference in quality from one to the other, the other routes serve a purpose but that’s all it felt like that was their main purpose was to set up the main route and their individual stories were afterthoughts.
[quote=“Takafumi, post:205, topic:108”]
One of the final scenes links back to other routes. It’s emotional, but only if you’ve read the other routes.
[/quote] I’m assuming your talking about the jail scene which always felt a little off to me. If your assuming Haru’s route as a separate entity then you’ve had interactions with all the girls but I feel like the breakdown each of them had in the interview room wasn’t really justified considering your interactions up to that point.
[quote=“Karifean, post:207, topic:108”]
On Sharin no Kuni, I will agree that the Ririko plot twist was very well handled and didn’t rely on coincidences and conveniences to work in the way G-senjou did. But on the other hand I found the “Houzuki and Kenichi lying about their disabilities” plot twist to be weaker. Especially the fact that Houzuki didn’t even consider the latter struck me as odd.
[/quote] I loved the Sharin no Kuni twist mainly because the way the game handles it. It literally tells you the whole game exactly what is happening but I managed to read over it multiple times. I really enjoy when a story uses your assumptions against you like SnK takes your assumption that Ririko is probably locked away somewhere and throws it back in your face.
I am attempting not read this while I remind you that when you quote a spoiler you have to add
[spoiler][/spoiler]
back on the text yourself
My fault thanks for the catch
That was a response to Naoki
It didn’t belong there, but it was a nice addition for those who had read all of the routes. I liked it. I wouldn’t have if I didn’t read every route.
I don’t think that twist was well-disguised, but it was well-done. They made use of the VN format to the best of their ability. It was more of a Kara no Shoujo styled twist. You can figure it out, but it’s easy to miss a couple lines and get lost.
Someone PLEASE reassure me that I’m not the only one who’s played/heard of Tenshi no Inai 12-gatsu or “A December Without Angels”. From my understanding, it’s about a guy and a girl who are bored with life and have no reason to live, so they start a “friends with benefits” relationship because they have nothing better to do. It’s sad, but deals with realistic topics at the same time. There’s no translation, so I only understood about 1/4 of it though. I really hope Mangagamer licenses it someday. Failing that, anyone know where I can buy a copy?
I can confirm that I have not heard of it before now. but the story sounds pretty interesting from the way you describe it
Is it made by Leaf? I heard about it, but my moonrune level is too low. I knew about a VNTL of that being in the works but has been in the hiatus limbo D:
Just started Danganronpa today. I’m liking it so far, always have been a fan of stories with isolated murders. Unfortunately, I haven’t been able to read many. Killer Queen was quite the let down & I haven’t found the endurance for Umineko yet. Please let me know if you guys have any recommendations of anything similar.
Possible Dandanronpa spoiler or idiotic cynicism - Also, holy shit, it’s so obvious that Maizono is plotting against me. That scum. Nobody is that friendly. If given the choice, I’ll make sure she dies first.
2 Likes
That spoiler makes me laugh sooooooo much 
I won’t say if it’s because it’s oh-so-right or because it’s oh-so-wrong
