CLANNAD -Hikari Mimamoru Sakamichi de- Episode 04 Discussion

Discussion topic for CLANNAD -Hikari Mimamoru Sakamichi de- Episode 04: My heart beating so fast, told by Ryou Fujibayashi as written by Kai. For general discussion of Ryou’s character, please visit her discussion topic.

Spoilers for the vanilla CLANNAD are permitted, but please tag references to other Side Stories with the [spoiler] tag, providing adequate context in parenthesis.

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So I guess Kyou wasn’t kidding when she said that she and her sister had swapped places before! Seems like this one is more or less a direct sequel to Episode 04. We get to find out when Ryou first developed feelings for Tomoya, which was surprise surprise, when Ryou pretended to be Kyou. Dammit Ryou, you couldn’t even develop feelings for him without pretending to be your sister?


Just finished this today…and wow I enjoyed it soooo much. Although the story may be a little too mainstream for twins, it is surprisingly funny and likable. Gotta hand it to Tomoya though, that guy is the man, the way he rebuked the guys on the opposing team and how he brought Ryou to the nurse office. Fantastic. No wonder he got girls aiming at him left and right! Also, I love the CGs in this episode, they’re literally overflowing with Ryou’s cuteness. Really wish they have an art book for containing the all CGs in this game. Overall I really like this episode, although it’s a bit cliche, is also funny and cute at the same time.[quote=“Aspirety, post:2, topic:2564”]
I guess Kyou wasn’t kidding when she said that she and her sister had swapped places before!

Kyou siad this? When?

kind of sad, but hey at least the feeling’s genuine :grin:

Hmm, somewhere in Kyou’s route? Can’t remember where exactly

This was a curious episode that complements the story of episode number 3 (Episode 3 spoilers) , where it is explained how Kyou developed her feelings towards Tomoya.

While this episode is about how Ryou got to know a bit more about Tomoya and develop her feelings toward him, I find it more interesting to look at Tomoya’s way of dealing with Kyou. He really cares about her to a point where it makes me wonder why they aren’t going out together.

Also, from what I’ve seen from Tomoya so far in Side Stories, why is he qualified as a delinquent? I mean, being a delinquent is a concept that surpasses what Tomoya and HaruharaSunohara do, which is basically skip class and do a prank from time to time.

Because the school is so elite, their standards for what qualifies as a ‘delinquent’ are much lower than other places. This was actually outlined in Episode 01.


It still surprises me that they would use the term delinquent to refer to someone like Tomoya or Sunohara. Even if the delinquency standards are low, the word delinquent carries a powerful meaning behind it.

(Little Busters! Haruka route spoilers) All the crazy shit happening inside Kanata’s and Haruka’s family is insane, to the point of bullying and ignoring Haruka’s human rights just because she is the daughter delinquent (this time a proper one though).

But well, who am I to judge what happens inside the microcosmos every single school is. Each of these schools have their own “unofficial rules” and common “urban tribes” or “communities” inside them after all.

After reading about what the deal is with Kyou’s less-than-agreeable attitude, it’s only natural to want to know about the other side of the Fujibayashi coin: Ryou. In this story, we learn the origin of her feelings towards Tomoya, which only got a passing mention in CLANNAD. It wasn’t exactly a necessary topic to elaborate on, given that Kyou has a larger share of the spotlight, but I like Ryou’s character enough to where I don’t really mind.

A common theme in this story and Kyou’s route is that she’s often compared to her twin sister. Obviously, Kyou excels in many things that Ryou does not, and it does make Ryou think a bit about herself. As much as I would have liked to see Ryou develop a clear sense of self-worth, that isn’t the focus of the story. Instead, one huge, conveniently-covered-up misunderstanding happens that sets up the dramatic whirlwind of Kyou’s route. The story feels more like shipping fluff as a result.

Despite this, it’s a harmless story and I should come to expect that from the next few stories as I read. Of course none of these are going to hold a candle to the source material, so it’s better if I lower my expectations from here on in. Anyway, at the time of this post, next story is tomorrow!

I come back to catch up on all the side stories after about a month and I experience this episode…

Oh deary deary me… What on earth was this writing?
Suffice to say, I did not like this episode one bit… Cringey, cheesy, and outright dumb.

Everyone in this scenario was completely braindead… Nobody could tell Kyou and Ryou apart? Even though Ryou is shorter than Kyou? Ryou has short hair? and the two have different colour eyes?

Apparently we’re supposed to forget that these two character have very different features despite being twins… I’m sorry but this is too stupid for me to swallow. Tomoya can’t tell her apart from Kyou. Why?
It was understandable in Kyou’s route in the VN because she cut her hair making it hard to tell But here there was no reason… And not only that but the entire sports team couldn’t tell either despite the clear difference in athleticism and body build.

If this is how Ryou came to develop feelings for Tomoya and is actually canon… then my opinion of Ryou’s character has dropped significantly. A really clumsy misunderstanding? This was simply poor writing.
It bugs me because I wanted to be able to praise this and understand Ryou, having been a less prominent character in the series… Oh well…

EDIT First time I’ve ever rated anything a 1/5 on the forum. Ain’t even mad.


If I read that correctly, Kyou stuffed her hair under the hat, so she looked at least a little bit more like her sister. Still doesn’t excuse eye color and size, but that would also be the case for the VN. Then again, both the action of a sports game and the emotional turmoil of Tomoya in Kyou’s Route might explain them not realising the difference. But if we further think about the differences, in the VN Tomoya realized the difference after hearing Kyou’s voice, but here he didn’t, so, I really don’t know. Man, for what side am I arguing here?

Yeah, it does seem a bit that Ryou’s the type of girl to immediately fall for any guy that is somewhat kind to her. And these types of crushes are also the ones that don’t have the highest chances of persevering, I think.

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This was a very so-so story. It didn’t provide anything too deep as far as characterization was concerned; it showed us Ryou’s insecurity (which we have been very much aware of since the start of CLANNAD), and how she got to liking Tomoya. I guess the only thing I learned here is that Tomoya is pretty much a stud. No wonder he got so many of the girls falling for him!

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I agree with a lot of the complaints here. I can buy Tomoya not recognizing Ryou because he believes Kyou has a bum ankle, and when she fails at athletics, that’s the logic he applies makes a degree of sense, but there really isn’t an excuse for the rest of the team not picking up on it. Has Kyou never mentioned that she has a twin sister? And even then, Tomoya should have realized she wasn’t Kyou when she started talking to him on the way to the nurse’s office. I half-expected the climax would be her being outed, chided/laughed at by people, and Tomoya standing up for her when no one else would. That would be a bit stronger of a reason to be so infatuated with him.

Although I can’t defend these problems, I do appreciate that Ryou’s classmates treat her kindly, even without the threat of Kyou looming over their heads. Kyou and Tomoya’s admittedly limited dialogue was also solid. Their chemistry from the VN is definitely intact here. But this was definitely missed potential.


This story is OK but it does stretch belief too much while playing the Identical Twins Mistake. That Ryou is a bit insecure and in the shadow of Kyou we know already so it doesn’t really offer anything much beyond showing that Tomoya has a kind and considerate side long before the main story starts.

The only thing of note is that Kyou is now expressing herself much more like we see in the main story compared to how she is in her own Side Story that precedes this one, and that again must be down to her interactions with the boys. So this story seems to tell very little about Ryou that we don’t already know and doesn’t really add any depth.

This is such a frustrating episode. It only gave me so much headache from start to finish.

I never really like Ryou that much (except during Kotomi’s route, she’s good there) and this story adds my dislike to her more.

I was really curious as to how Ryou develop feelings from Tomoya, because I already read Kyou’s side story. But when I finally read this, I was so disappointed because of ‘how it all started.’ It’s just basically Ryou pretended to be Kyou and so many other dumb things happen all throughout the story that made me so frustrated. I am actually expecting something a bit simple or grounded, but the way this was written, it’s in somewhat a cringey manner that I can’t connect with unlike with Kyou’s story.

I know Ryou is the type person who is easily sway by her emotions, like for example, in Kappei’s route, when she just quickly fell in love with him. But for this one, it just left a bad taste in my mouth.

Nothing adds to Ryou’s character in this story, she just became more annoying in my eyes.

The only nice things here is that I was able to see a much more develop dynamic relationship between Kyou and Tomoya.

It’ll be fun to read Kyou’s route again and come back knowing how shallow Ryou’s feelings for Tomoya actually are. That’ll leave us feeling even more guilty and horrible about everything that is happening (and I am going to love every second of it) :wink:

But hey, love is shallow, there’s nothing wrong with that. I’d wager many of our own “first loves” are grounded in very shallow things and I have no shame in admitting that. Such is life, and such is love.

Also excuse me but

I find it hard to label any of that as “quickly” when Kappei literally went all around town to try and find her, and even continued to maintain contact with her after returning her handkerchief. It was just all in the background while Tomoya was helping him out.
Kappei is a true gentleman :umu:


I would really love to read the route again if I have the time. It may not look like it, but Kyou’s route is definitely my favorite in Clannad despite my complains here and there. (And that’s one of the reasons why it’s a great route for me)

And with these new informations I got from both the Fujibayashi’s side stories, I’m pretty sure I would feel much horrible, frustrated and will love it the second time.

With Kappei’s side, I’m alright with it. But with Ryou’s side, it felt quickly for me.

If I remember correctly, isn’t Ryou’s second time meeting Kappei in his route? She barely remember their first meeting until Kappei reminds her of their first encounter. I can still remember how shock Kyou was when Ryou just ‘fell in-love’ with Kappei knowing that Ryou likes Tomoya, so that’s why it felt “quickly” for me. It’s like, she just forgets her feelings for Tomoya. But, I guess that’s alright, because it’s Ryou and like you said, her feelings for Tomoya are shallow. And maybe because it’s a sequel to Kyou’s Route(?)

Anyways, I just want to say what I mean by it left a ‘bad taste’ for me. That’s when Ryou ‘pretended’ to be Kyou. What made me feel horrible inside is that how she fell in love with Tomoya’s kindness, but that kindness Tomoya shown to her wasn’t meant for her, it’s for Kyou, and that’s why reading it made me feel horrible and made me dislike Ryou to some extent. I kinda blame Tomoya as well for not realizing that it’s not Kyou, but oh well…I can’t do anything about it…

I can see that Ryou’s actions and feelings can be defended here, but it’s just hard for me to shift my perspective about her character.

Haha, I can’t say this as I never experience “first love” in my life, so I can’t fully explain nor express things properly unlike the others and I am not ashamed of it as well. I can’t even say if attraction or infatuation can really define as “love.” I guess you could say it’s a “shallow love.”

So my opinion about ‘shallow love and relationships’ were based on my observations and talking to people around me who experience this or known others who has experiences about it that it usually leads to negative results, that’s probably why I have a bit of a negative outlook to the people who has and are into shallow love and relationships. That’s why I just have a different perspective about it.

I really do hope that’s true and that there’s nothing wrong with that… Me, seeing shallow love and relationships leading to negative results…It might take a while for me to believe that.

Oh well, I’m inexperience with these things so…well… I don’t know…
Life is hard, haha… :sad:

Yes, but in no way did it imply that she had feelings upon that second meeting. By the time they started going out, they could have had numerous meetings in the background

That’s good, and Ryou is absolutely aware of that and it makes her feel absolutely horrible as well.
And this might just be my personal taste, but if a piece of fiction can make me feel what a character is feeling (regardless of how positive or negative that emotion is), I consider that good writing. And I have no doubt that Ryou felt horrible about it not only in this side story but in every single day leading up to her route, knowing that Tomoya was showing kindness not to her but to her sister; the kind of kindness that she could only dream of receiving from someone, let alone the opposite sex. That kind of horrible feeling made her own self-esteem take a nosedive, and could have possibly driven her to desperate measures, such as (but not including) asking her sister to help her get together with Tomoya knowing full well that her sister harbors feelings for the guy…

tl;dr much like Kyou’s own route, you feel horrible, and it’s good that you feel horrible because the whole love triangle is a look into the selfish innocence that is teenage love

I’m sorry, as you can see, this route and the whole Kyou/Ryou/Tomoya relationship means a lot to me, so I end up talking way too much about it :yahaha:

It is a bit controversial for me to say, sure, but love, or at least romantic love, is shallow. That doesn’t mean it can’t grow into something much deeper (see: Tomoya and Nagisa’s relationship). Nor does it mean it is something you should shrug off because you only want something deep in life. Life is all about creating experiences and connections with people. Even if it may start out shallow, you have to dive in the shallows before you reach the deep. Baby steps :wink: