Episode 8 PV spoiler Eh, I was kinda disappointed that they went back to the normal routine after all that build up. I mean, it was expected anyways, I guess.
I know it’s not good to compare shows, but compared to Angel Beats, seems like Charlotte is becoming too slow paced.
It feels like Charlotte isn’t gonna score well with other Key works though. I feel like it’s not gonna be remembered well, with the way it’s heading. Not to mention that the only thing that has Key magic at the moment is the powers. The scientist and dissecting and all that, seem too, yunno, new for a Key work. It’s like crossing your own line, but going into the decoy line and not the real line itself. The fact that scientists has to do with Charlotte kinda makes it a turn-off for me, as a Key work, since Key goes against scientific possibilities.
The animation could be better, compared to other P.A. Works shows. Like, seriously, this is gonna be your money maker show, and Key isn’t gonna make a visual novel out of it. Maybe it’s just me, but I can’t stand Charlotte’s colors, they seem too bland on certain scenes. They should be more, you know. Ufotable-looking. But their animation is on point, when they foreshadow someone, cause you get that bland, empty background. Not to mention that their animation for it helps, to a certain degree for certain scenes.
[quote=“Kotarou, post:157, topic:1313”]
It feels like Charlotte isn’t gonna score well with other Key works though. I feel like it’s not gonna be remembered well, with the way it’s heading.
[/quote]I feel that at this point, if Charlotte manages to have one incredibly feels worthy scene by the end, then it will be remembered fondly. That’s pretty much the entire reason Angel Beats! is to begin with. Like it or not, Key works are mostly remembered solely for giving people feels, and if Charlotte manages this, then it will sit well along side Key’s other works.
Why not? I compare shows all the time to say “Oh you liked anime A? I think you’ll like anime B too”. Comparing pacing is fine and true in this case.
Key magic is usually hidden until late in the route (I know there are exceptions). Since this isn’t using route formats I’d assume if it is there it wouldn’t be actually revealed until episode 10 a the earliest. Even then I’m not sure that’s a bad thing, did planetarian have any real Key magic?
I dont think we know for sure that that is actually what episode 8 is going to be like at all. Its a PV, the mood and content dont necessarily have to be reflect those implied by the 20 seconds of randoms clips and audio.
[quote=“Kotarou, post:157, topic:1313”]
I feel like it’s not gonna be remembered well, with the way it’s heading.
[/quote]How can you talk about how people are going to remember it when we havent even seen the end??? And besides, to be not remembered well, it would have to start being actually bad instead of pretty good sometimes and just OK at others.
[quote=“Kotarou, post:157, topic:1313”]
The scientist and dissecting
[/quote]Except there hasnt been any of that… We havent seen any scientist yet. The only time theyve been brought up in more than passing is when Nao was describing them, and there are lost of people that speculate that maybe there arent any scientists…
[quote=“Kotarou, post:157, topic:1313”]
only thing that has Key magic at the moment is the powers.
[/quote]1) Why does there need to be ‘Key magic’ to make it good. 2) There is almost never any “Key magic” until the end. 3) Since you decided to compare to Angel Beats!, the only “Key magic” there was the setting, and that worked out just fine, so Im not sure what youre worried about for Charlotte.
[quote=“Kotarou, post:157, topic:1313”]
seem too, yunno, new for a Key work. It’s like crossing your own line[…]
Key goes against scientific possibilities.
[/quote]1) No, I dont know, what do you mean “too new”? 2) How the hell is this crossing their own line? Key is not bound to any certain set of themes or rules they have to follow, in the first place. 3)I have no idea what youre talking about "goes against scientific possibilities, Key has never denied science. But again, even if they had, they are not bound to continue that, and it shouldnt make it less or worse of a Key work bc of that.
[quote=“Kotarou, post:157, topic:1313”]
The animation could be better
[/quote]No idea why several people have commented on this. Theres really nothing wrong with the animation imo.
[quote=“Kotarou, post:157, topic:1313”]
this is gonna be your money maker show
[/quote]No idea where youre getting this. Every show is made to make money, but Charlotte has never been some huge, highly anticipated money-sink.
Ehhhh… No? The Key magic in Angel Beats was (Angel Beats anime spoilers) was Otonashi existing in that world in the first place. Though I’m entirely with you with Key magic not needing to be a thing at all for a show to be good. I’d say the dependency on Key magic is often a flaw in Key works to begin with.
Can anyone actually describe what people have been criticising about the animation? Since I’m with Yerian here and the animation is good. The shot composition on key scenes has been stellar, if a lil bland in most moments, and the NagiAsakura things peeps have been comparing too… well those gifs from earlier made Charlotte’s scene look better.
There’s never been any dependancy on Key magic. Key magic is a means of leveling up an extremely emotional story to a key-tier-emotional story. The only real dependancy I can remember off the top of my head would be in Clannad: Fuuko route and After Story.
ohmigawd the colors and backgrounds aren’t gorgeous enough huge problem show ruined everything ruined
seriously? -_-
Why are you ridiculing one of the more adequate criticisms Kotarou’s given? Sure the bit about Ufotable is garbage but the heart of what Kotarou is saying here… isn’t off point? The palette’s Charlotte has used in most episodes have been very consistent. This is largely so that ep 7’s drastic palette change stands out more, but on their own we have 5-6 episodes of the same bright cheerful colour palettes. To find that bland isn’t too off putting even if the show is gorgeous.
If you think so, you’d better go see a doctor; he might want to suggest that you should use glasses.
He never said it ruined the whole thing, but it certainly could’ve been better! @Kotarou, I agree with you that the animation could’ve been better, and also the color palette. I’m just hoping they are saving for the final episodes, to show us some really good-looking stuff.
I’m not liking the nitpicking contests that start in charlotte discussions whenever people run out of meaningful things to talk about. Background and color palettes only matter in very specific cases, like when a series is going all-out on the visuals (KyoAni/Shaft shows), trying out some crazy colors (No Game No Life) or the visuals are eye-catchingly, obviously, really bad compared to most shows that run around the same time (I think School Days got some flak in that department).
Outside of such cases, there really is no point in criticizing visuals. There’s nothing wrong with Charlotte’s visuals.
[quote=“Naoki_Saten, post:165, topic:1313, full:true”]
I’m not liking the nitpicking contests that start in charlotte discussions whenever people run out of meaningful things to talk about. Background and color palettes only matter in very specific cases, like when a series is going all-out on the visuals (KyoAni/Shaft shows), trying out some crazy colors (No Game No Life) or the visuals are eye-catchingly[/quote]
OH GOD HOW WRONG ARE YOU.
First, this is just your opinion. Don’t try to push it on others, saying they are discussing ‘nitpicking stuff’. I don’t think I am, and I don’t think some other people do as well.
Second, when you say those stuff doesn’t matter in everything but very specific cases you are underrating professionals who studied hard and worked hard, so they could give more meaning to the story through visuals. Those who might have worked as hard or even harder than the ones who wrote the story, for example.
Third, Charlotte is not a book. If visuals were so unimportant, they would’ve simply written it as such. Backgrounds and color palettes are part of it, and thus, can be discussed. Those things, working alongside the story and other elements, can help a lot to bring emotions to the viewers if done right. Charlotte is an ANIME, just like other animes, like KyoAni and NGNL, visuals do matter a lot. If this just mattered in those cases, you could also completely throw story aside when an anime isn’t going “all-out on the story” as you say.
Background and colour always matter unless you are just listening to the show (or only reading the subs or something). While I generally don’t care about visuals (unless they are like KyoAni or make me want to gouge my eyes out) in anime it is something others do. Nitpicks may seem stupid but there’s when there’s a lot it starts to weigh on the show/game/book/movie/whatever.
I just assume when a new post shows up in the episode discussion on a Thursday it’s probably not because someone just finished the episode and they have something to add that’s not a nitpick (it happens but rarely)
everyone has his own taste in animation. I for example like Charlotte’s animation and see no problem with it, but I have problems with the animation of the above mentioned NGNL. I didnt like that kind of animation at all and decided not to watch any of the shows.
It’s not very expressive compared to shows of a similar nature. That’s all. It just looks dull.
To you at least. Other people have other priorities. Visuals mean little to me, but if there is a quirk, it’s best to bring it up, because there may be people who hate that quirk.
Hey, guys, take a look at this:
He’s not ridiculing, he’s giving his opinion -_-
[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:164, topic:1313”]
I agree with you that the animation could’ve been better
[/quote]OK, you know, the color plalette stuff… whatever. Dont know why it bothers people, but sure, I can see it. But seriously, Charlotte has TOP TIER animation. I have no idea how it “could be better”…
[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:166, topic:1313”]
First, this is just your opinion. Don’t try to push it on others
[/quote]He says immediately after he says:
Either way, it is nitpicking, but it isnt meaningless.
No need to get all agressive and defensive here guys. Saying you dont like a work of visual art is the same as saying you dont like a work of writing. No need to get all spazzed out and rude about it.
I tried to explain, Takafumi tried to summarize it also, but you still don’t get it. But just let me say this: good animation is not just the frame rates, the verisimilitude, the technical stuff. You gotta have passion, dedication and inspiration. Charlotte is lacking that.
Definition of nitpicking:“looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.”
By calling this nitpicking you are saying those things are unimportant, but I don’t think so. Even if you consider them to be, as @Takafumi said:
I am not looking for small or unimportant things, because I don’t think visuals are like that. They are important for me, so criticizing them is just like criticizing the story. What I would call unimportant is that joke in the middle of ep 7, that some people were really bothered by it. But I won’t say that is nitpicking, because I know it’s important for them.
I have no idea how you are able to judge the “passion, dedication, and inspiration” put into Charlotte, but the animation is certainly not lazy. It would really help me understand your opinion if you could give some examples/descriptions of how Charlotte could have those things.
Also, animation as an art form is unique in that, while whether you personally like it or dislike it is still a subjective thing, its actual quality is extremely technical and, yes, at least in part objective. While I am certainly no expert, and if someone more knowledgable is able to give solid evidence against I would love to hear it, I find it hard to deny Charlotte has technically stellar animation.
[quote=“sillylittlemelody, post:172, topic:1313”]
Definition of nitpicking:“looking for small or unimportant errors or faults, especially in order to criticize unnecessarily.”
By calling this nitpicking you are saying those things are unimportant, but I don’t think so.
[/quote]You shouldnt tell me Im contradicting myself, and then criticize me for something I didnt say. Im sorry if the way I used nitpicking didnt fit your dictionary definition, but I literally said I didnt think it was meaningless, and by definition not unimportant.
Ehhh. There’s something in what you’re saying. We can look at frame rates, detail and ‘how much is animated’ when looking at animation, and those are objective things.
But as soon as you’re critiquing them you’re completely subjective; high frame rates, large amount of detail and a large amount of animation on their own aren’t an ‘objective goodness’. Some examples of this are good use of still images in animation (I’d use the opening of Kanashimi no Belladonna for that since it’s entirely a panning shot of a tapestry), masterful animation is all about controlling the frame rate (Evangelion’s mechs are a good example of this since they cut frames for a heavier feel) and in a similar fashion minimalism for effect is often pretty good in it’s own right. (Kill la Kill uses that a fair bit. Sometimes well, sometimes less so…) Silly’s critique here is lacking since he still hasn’t expressed what his problem is with the animation beyond how it feels to him. But looking for some kind of ‘objective technical goodness’ isn’t /too/ helpful here.
(Oh and for a comparable medium to doubley show this: frame rates in games. There’s some kind of ‘movement’ that every game should have 60fps or is defacto a bad game. Visual novels, turn based games, and text based games should really make it clear that whilst there is some merit to those claims sometimes, it really isn’t this objective thing people should aim for at all.)
What’d be nice is some interesting examples of what the issues are. But that’d be asking alot of Taka and Silly so I’m not too fussed about it. It’d just be nice to begin to understand what they’re getting at ^^
First of all, animation is a study of conveying movement. Yes, animators had to study how real people move in order to achieve a good level. Yes, they worked hard (okay, not all of them, cuz there are some who leave two times of the frames to the inbetweeners, but…) to put a lot of detail in it. But like any other form of art, there are people who have talent and there are others who don’t.
As a study of conveying movement, animation has to give the viewer the “illusion of life”, the impression that those drawings are really moving. Thus, they have to obey a lot of things from real life, in order to take those movements to the screen. So, they study how people walk, they study perspective, they study how water moves, they study how animals move, how gravity attracts objects, etc. This is a factor of the ‘objectivity’ of animation, as you say. For example, when they portray a ball swinging in the air, they have to know how uniformly varied movement works. If they animate the ball in a way it gets slower until it hits the ground it will not look natural and they would fail. Objectively speaking.
But something that is known in the field of animation, is the some of those rules can be broken, and it’s even encouraged to do so. Animation is not a copy-paste of real life. Its wonderfulness lies in the fact that you have control over it. You can change as you want. And then, we get into the field of creativity and subjectivity. A way a character walks for example can tell a lot about his personality. There are a lot of walks in animation that ‘break’ the rules of RL. You can swing the shank the other way, like it’s broken, and it still looks natural, for example. One of the reasons Goofy from Disney became remarkable in people’s minds is the way he walks. The animator put lot of creativity into it, and it became unique, adding much more to the character.
There are limitless possibilities when it comes to animation, but you gotta have creativity to explore them. You have to know how can you break the rules and still be alright. You have to work on a character’s expressions to make the viewers empathize with them. This is where animation is subjective. Did the animator do a good job in bringing that character to life? How unique was the way the characters move, was it natural? People can have different opinions about it. This is my case with Charlotte…
