T-Timelines…?
…
Nah.
This was an interesting forum topiccast.
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Saying “it could have only happened” implies that all the other possibilities were just “views” of what could have happened. Views that never should have happened. As such, these views need not subscribe to causality in the first place. I guess that’s another theory right there.
Anyway, I just realized after thinking a bit that, after all this discussion, I’ve lost sight of my main point. My main point with all of this is that I don’t believe that the kids at the beach are an incarnation of Yukito and Misuzu/Kanna, simply because I believe that idea to be paradoxical in nature.
So if they aren’t that, then what are they? That’s something I am still thinking about.
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I’ve been working on an alternate stance for a while now and while it isn’t perfect I feel like there might be some evidence to at least give it some legs. All of our theories so far have run off the idea of the boy at the beach is Yukito, which makes sense seeing as he has been in focus for so long, but what if it isn’t Yukito but is instead Ryuuya. It would explain we the boy seemingly feels upset when he is looking back at Misuzu and Yukito on the sea wall. He thinks about how they have hard times coming in order to give them a future and he clenches his fist which is an action that shows how he hates that they have to go through what they will go through for him. If this is Ryuuya this would make sense, taking into account his character I could see him being upset that his descendant had to suffer for his sake.
Not onto why it could be Ryuuya, we have to go back to Summer to get a few things from the very end. While Ryuuya and Uraha are outside right before Ryuuya’s death they have a conversation about the child that Uraha is expecting, and Ryuuya gets a little excited thinking about it “That feeling I had as a child on a journey wells up again like a cloud.” He follows up this line with “I can continue my journey even after death.” Initially when I read through Summer I assumed he meant through his bloodline his journey would continue, but what if we accept that literally and he means what he says that he is going to continue his journey even after he dies? For that lets examine the curse for just a moment.
One of the main ideas behind the curse is that it will kill the girls and anyone who gets close to her Ryuuya being the first victim, but is Ryuuya the only person to die to the curse like this? We are never told of any of the descendants staying with their version of the girl in the sky until they die, granted the only other one we hear about is Yukito’s mom who left her girl before the curse could kill her. What if the curse doesn’t end just with the person’s death? What if when they die they get caught up in the curse the same way that Kanna did? If thats true then would it be possible that Ryuuya ends up trapped in the sky with Kanna after his death?
I found some things in Summer that seem to back this up but I think I’ll hold them till the podcast. What do you guys think, could the kid be Ryuuya instead of Yukito?
You still haven’t provided any real evidence that connects the boy to Ryuuya, so I don’t really buy it. From a literary standpoint, having the Boy as Yukito makes the most sense.
But having him as Misuzu is also possible; just because he’s a boy doesn’t mean he can’t be an incarnation of the girl in the sky. My only evidence for that would be how it’s implied that remembers the teachings of the winged ones.
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Yeah, if the boy isn’t Yukito then, what is he? Well, could we say he’s just inherited fragments of memories, even if some were from the future? I’m not very fond of that explanation, but it’s workable I think.
Would it make sense to say he’s someone who received fragments of their past instances? That plays a bit into what I said above as well.
Oh that’s a good point. I hadn’t considered other genders. If the “fragments” idea is workable, we could say he’s even received fragments of Kanna, post-curse.
I don’t think it even needs to be related to the curse in order for it to be Ryuuya; I think, in the world of AIR, reincarnation is common lore. I wouldn’t be surprised if Ryuuya’s soul transferred into someone else at some point in time.
However, for a regular human, reincarnation would mean not having your memories from the past. The case is different for the winged beings. So it’s a bit weird that the boy would know something about Misuzu and Yukito. Unless, of course, the curse allows for memories to be transferred, which is a bit weird, if you ask me.
That’s an interesting theory as well. Since the boy remembers some things, it could be said that he inherited those from the winged ones. The girl, on the other hand, doesn’t seem to be aware of any memories…
That reminds me… They did say in summer that the memories of the winged beings are too much for a human vessel to handle. Therefore, if either the girl or the boy inherited the memories of the winged beings, then they would eventually suffer as they slowly regained memories of the entire world, wouldn’t they?
It makes me think that Misuzu’s eventual death was not caused by the curse, but simply by being an incarnation of the winged beings (because her soul couldn’t handle it). What was an effect of the curse was her not being able to make any friends.
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Honestly there is no outright evidence to connect the boy to anyone, all we have to work on is that he has an understanding of what has happened in the past(future?).
[quote=“NotKyon, post:46, topic:1173”]
Would it make sense to say he’s someone who received fragments of their past instances? That plays a bit into what I said above as well.
[/quote]That’s pretty close to what I’m thinking and let me go ahead and say why I’m thinking this is possible instead of saving it just for the sake of conversation. Just before Ryuuya dies in Summer he mentions several times that he is going to see Kanna, which seems odd because he knows that Kanna isn’t dead but trapped in the sky so how is he going to see her and apologize had Uraha decided to forget about everything?
Plus lets thing for a minute about how memories tend to be transferred in this story. One consistent theme throughout all the routes is that the feathers are receptacles for memories and have to ability to transfer them from person to person. See Michiru mentioning she is filling the feather with happy memories, Shiraho’s memories taking over Kano through the feather, etc. So now lets look at the last line that Ryuuya uses before going into his sort of dream like thing happens at the end. “The pure white feathers falling from the sky capture me…” So it’s possible that a portion of Ryuuya through his memories was stored and transferred and then when the curse was broken he was released, which would explain how he could still be around a thousand years later.
[quote=“Pepe, post:47, topic:1173”]
It makes me think that Misuzu’s eventual death was not caused by the curse, but simply by being an incarnation of the winged beings (because her soul couldn’t handle it).
[/quote]Plausible but up until the end she was still mentioning that she was still suffering from her impossible pain in her “wings” which is consistent with the curse. When Ryuuya saw the vision of Kanna her wings had been torn apart with arrows which would explain where that pain was coming from.
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The problem I see with that is the whole issue with the boy on the beach knowing that Misuzu and Yukito were given sad days. If he did inherit Ryuuya’s memories via the feather, how would he know about Misuzu and Yukito’s cruel fate, let alone who they even were to begin with?
This topic is now unpinned. It will no longer appear at the top of its category.
Thank you to everyone for joining us for the final route of the AIR Bookclub! The Podcast is due to be published as soon as it’s ready, but your efforts are required for the grand finale! The AIR Commemoration Week ~The End of Infinity has begun.
So, in summary, AIR Route is freaking amazing. It’s such a solid conclusion to AIR, better than any I could have hoped for. The entire route didn’t let up on those heavy emotions; I was on the verge of crying the entire time, but the one moment that blew my top was the final scene with Misuzu. Last time I cried that hard was from the Little Busters! Refrain Fake End. The tears wouldn’t stop, and the same can be applied here. This route was a masterpiece from start to finish. The early half with Sora exploring common and Misuzu from a new perspective were amazing, but the real meat of the story, what happened after, is unparalleled.
I am so, so thankful that they didn’t opt for a cop-out ending, and went with the sad, but meaningful ending. AIR would never be quite as amazing if Misuzu survived in the end. Trumping the curse requires tremendous sacrifice. It’s about finding happiness and satisfaction with your life, instead of clinging to the false hope of a survival. Through the efforts of everyone who came before, and everyone beside Misuzu, a happy ending was able to be realised. The kind of happy ending that left Haruko crying for weeks, before she had no tears left, and had to continue on with a renewed satisfaction with and appreciation of life’s ups and downs.
The AIR route is full of cryptic mysteries that arguably could’ve been explored more clearly, but I’m kind of thankful for the way it’s presented. As it is, readers can form any number of interpretations they want, and none of them are more or less valuable than any other. It’s up to the reader to decide upon their own truth that they can be satisfied with. Such is life.
10/10 Route. Right up there with Refrain for me.
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i’m literally laughing the first choice can actually give you a bad end 5 minutes in what the hell is going on
So a thought just occurred to me, that I’m surprised I didn’t consider while I was reading.
Why exactly was Haruko immune to the effects of the curse? She never felt any pain no matter how close she got to Misuzu.
I’m thinking it might have something to do with Yukito. Maybe the curse specifically only targets the boy trying to save her. Or maybe the fact that Yukito kind-of escaped death by becoming Sora created a loophole in the curse which caused it to no longer apply.
That actually goes into my other question, which I pointed out some time ago:
It’s only natural that one’s biological mother would attempt to be close to her own child, and I don’t think Misuzu’s mother is an exception.
If she did, then Haruko must have felt some sort of pain eventually, right? If she didn’t then maybe it only affects the Ryuuya-Uraha bloodline. It’s pretty tough to assume one or the other
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In this route specifically, right?
I’m assuming it’s because enough time hadn’t passed. It was only around three or so days that Haruko tried to get closer to Misuzu. Plus, Misuzu wasn’t entirely able to feel closer to anybody at that time due to losing memory relatively early on.
Whereas with Yukito, there was quite some time (not sure how long, a few weeks I think) before he felt anything from the curse. Granted, Yukito wasn’t exactly trying to be close either, so this part is almost stretching it.
I think it’s also valid to interpret it as Sora “healing” that aspect of the curse, or even Yukito doing so as a side effect of his wish.
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Yeah, I know. I’m late. Like, beyond late. About as late as Haruko was for Misuzu. Oh well, I’m here now.
Before I went anywhere near this topic I had to sit for a couple of days. And I have to say, even after waiting so long, I was still very disturbed by AIR. Its ending made me… very uncomfortable.
At first I was just angry. Like, really pissed off. All of the AIR route up through Aozora was amazing. I could totally see several flaws in it as I was reading through, but I understood what Maeda was trying to do, and I appreciated it greatly. But that ending was just… I don’t know, the first word that comes to me is stupid.
Of course, as usual reading all of Kaza’s interpretations help greatly. At least I’m sort of able to comprehend what physically might have been happening, even if the meaning is still kinda lost on me. Now, I haven’t read all the posts, because I’m tired right now, but.
Honestly, the part that pissed me off the most was that Yukito never came back. Like, its totally my own fault too. I set myself up, completely convinced from the moment that he disappeared that he was coming back. It was the most anticipated moment for me; I was dying to hear his voice. Like, it was obvious to me that Sora was Yukito from the beginning, but Sora just never had the same great qualities as Yukito, especially when we progressively heard less and less from Sora himself as we neared the end.
Not only that, but no one really cared about Sora, which really made me feel like no one cared about my presence, which is really weird for a VN. I lost almost all personally relation and involvement with the story.
Second thing that pissed me off: Misuzu died, stayed dead… and everyone just got over it. (I know it had been a while before the next scene with Haruko, but still). For once, I was begging for some Key magic and instead all I got was a middle finger and some unexplained shit about the sky and infinity. Yeah, OK, so maybe the curse was broken, but then why was no one happy about it? The goal of the whole story was reached, and all everyone was talking about was moving on.
And how was the goal even reached in the first place? This one is really killing me. Like, first, Yukito seemingly did nothing. Like, yeah, he got to stay with Misuzu for forever (sorta?) or whatever, but SORA DIDNT DO ANYTHING. This goes back to how pissed I am about Yukito not coming back. Like, I kept expecting Sora to be there for some reason; to do something. But in the end it seemed like he was only there so we could see the end of the story.
And then what did Misuzu or Haruko even do? Are you telling me that to break this 1000 year curse, all Haruko had to do was stop being selfish and start showing her niece/daughter that she loved her; and all Misuzu had to do was STAY AWAKE FOR 3 DAYS STRAIGHT. Ok, yes, I understand. All she had to do was make a happy memory. But it just kinda seems preposterous to me that for 1000 years no one had ever been able to make the girl happy.
OK, breather time. Sorry for all my rambling. I really did throughly enjoy the route up until the end. I just didnt like the ending. Which (as many of us here know, whether it be with this or with other works), not liking the ending can really screw with your opinion of the story as a whole. I just wasnt satisfied.
And if any of you were wondering, yes it did make me lightly tear up a couple times, like when Giniro/Aozora were playing. Very different kind of feels from Key’s other games, though. I may not have even cried at all if it werent for the brilliant music.
It’s definitely weird for a VN and I think that’s what made it so revolutionary for its time. The players want to experience themselves saving a girl? Well too bad, you’re now a crow! Either way, it’s definitely something different and I can see why it would upset some people, yeah.
Reading that paragraph actually made me smile, because I feel it was one of the more powerful parts of AIR. That’s how the real life is, yo. There isn’t any Key magic to save people, and we, as humans, must learn to get over the unfairness of this thing we call life.
This is where I start arguing with you; Sora, whether directly or indirectly, helped give Misuzu the strength to live on. It’s something that Yukito couldn’t have done, because he himself was affected by the curse, and might have even died before he achieved anything. Sora was a loophole to the curse and thus, was able to help give Misuzu the strength to keep moving.
Plus there was the whole thing with the dinosaur, but that could’ve been done even by not an animal.
Yeah that’s actually a valid point. Were all the incarnations of the girl unable to become happy because of the curse? Did the curse really affect those peoples’ families to the point that it would be nigh impossible to obtain happiness? It’s definitely something worth speculating about, but Yukito’s mother pretty clearly states that they weren’t able to save any of the incarnations that they met.
Oh man, that’s exactly how I felt after reading Rewrite, and I know that feeling all too well. I’ve gotten to accept it after time, and I hope you will do so for the ending of AIR 
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There’s a few ways to answer this. Firstly, I think Misuzu’s happiness is conditional to letting go of her attachments to life. My theory is that the past girls were all so determined to not burden others, to break free from the curse, desperately struggling for a happy ending while full of regrets over not being able to live a full life, that they never thought to merely focus on the present. All the other girls were focused on throwing off the shackles of the past, and hopeful for the future. Misuzu may have been the first to simply be content with the present, and accept her death. I believe that’s what makes her different, and what broke the curse.
You could also add in the interpretation that the force opposing the curse has grown stronger over generations. The example here would be in Yukito’s bloodline, with all of the descendants hopes and wishes accumulating in his doll over generations, granting him the power to oppose the thousand year old curse.
Both work, maybe it’s a mixture of both.
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Yeah… I was sitting just thinking about this today. Thinking about, the ending aside, how absolutely terrifying this part was. Like, all I can hear is Haruko screaming with Aozora playing in the back. As I said, a very different kind of feels.
While I see that this is true to an extent, I’m saying it doesn’t really come off that way to the reader, or at least not to me. Instead I was left feeling hopeless and disconnected.
Both of these two points bring up something interesting: is this really a nakige? Like, they try to kinda play it off as if it all was a happy thing because the curse was broken. But it almost seems more like a utsuge to me…
[quote=“Pepe, post:57, topic:1173”]
I hope you will do so for the ending of AIR
[/quote]Although I couldn’t fall asleep again last night, thinking “AIR is one of those things that I’m really glad I read, but almost kinda wish I hadn’t”, today I finally started to get it… I think. I guess reading and writing help a bit.
Except I don’t agree that that works because it is stated repeatedly that the Houjutsu had been growing increasingly weaker.
Huh, maybe this is exactly why it’s been getting weaker; because every generation had put a part of their power into the doll.
Though then the obvious question arises why they’d do that if not doing that had kept the power strong.
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Well… ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
AIR is definitely up there above most of the rest in terms of “emotional impact” to me, so yeah, it might just be more of an utsuge, as it was mostly utsuge that seems to do that to me, heh.
