Your Ideal Visual Novel

Off-Topic
#1

(basically i need help, our class is gonna be making visual novels for our finals)

Since we all love visual novels, I think it’s gonna be interesting (and I think you guys are the best to ask) to see what you guys personally believe should be in a perfect or ideal visual novel. So basically, gonna ask some similar questions here, like these:

  • What do you look for in a visual novel?
  • What’s the one thing you feel that visual novels need to have but most often don’t?
  • What advice would you give to someone off starting their first visual novel or trying to make the best visual novel?

For example, I personally believe that visual novels need to have well-designed characters that have proper distinction, both literally and metaphorically, and I think that visual novels should have this proper emotional grab or hook that can turn a regular reader into an avid fan. That kind of stuff, I suppose.

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#2

Well for me the first thing I look for is an interesting storyline because it is easier to make a quick judgement as to whether I buy/play it or not than on the characters. The nature of the characters is a quality that only tends to be revealed after spending quite some time with the VN. I like to see characters that are three dimensional and don’t seem simply exist to serve the need of the protagonist, to have a feeling that these characters have a full life story predating the start of the VN. But you have to decide if you are going to make the story drive the characters or vice versa.

It’s a bit obvious to say that a great storyline isn’t a guarantee that a VN will be fulfilling of course. It’s necessary to look at all the facets such as the pacing, the art, the dialogue, the voice acting if used, the music, the general style and “worldbuilding”, whether the choices are meaningful and satisfying (whether leading to happy/funny or sad/tragic outcomes).

Nonetheless good writing is as essential as for a book, TV show or movie to convey to a player the emotions that you want them to feel and to make the characters come alive.

That’s probably not much help but I hope will get discussion going…

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#3

What do you look for in a visual novel?

Good artwork. To me, good art communicates a sense of the world the VN is trying to create. When done well, it allows me to imagine myself in that world, walking its streets, talking to its people, and taking part in the experience. So, in that sense, I’m not necessarily saying the art has to be stunningly beautiful, (although it certainly doesn’t hurt), but should have its own unique feel, whether that is striking colors, immersive backgrounds, intricate character designs, etc. The synopsis/plot overview descriptions do nothing for me, always the same buzzword filled generic drek you see everywhere and says basically nothing. You never know how the writing is going to turn out until you dive in anyway. People have been spinning variations on the same story structures that are older than the language it is written in. Any premise has promise. I guess I’m pretty easy on this front. Purely subjective, but I’ll also typically search by genre depending on my mood, and the only genre I dismiss outright is horror. (It bores me for some reason.) If I dig the art style, and the price tag doesn’t require a double take, I’ll give almost any VN a chance.

What’s the one thing you feel that visual novels need to have but most often don’t?

Better translations/localization. I know, most VNs are translated which presents its own host of problems, but typos and poorly phrased sentences are distracting. It’s bound to happen a few times in tens of thousands of lines of dialogue, but if the reader is constantly feeling like they could have done a better job than the writer did, then that’s a bad sign. Not exactly a rampant issue, but I’ve experienced it enough to warrant bringing it up.

Possibly also an over-reliance on stereotypical archetypes or tropes, which can be viewed as either a negative or simply a quirk of the genre. Nobody would argue against say, more varied and dynamic characters, but some VNs do the stereotypes in a way that makes that gives them more depth or makes them more relatable. Depends on how the VN is executed, I suppose.

What advice would you give to someone off starting their first visual novel or trying to make the best visual novel?

I ponder this question quite often as I’ve got my own writing projects going on. The piece of advice I feel like I run into the most is: Don’t try to do too much. Identify your strengths and weakness, as these will be apparent to the viewer if you try to juggle too many ideas. If you can execute one idea really well, as opposed to doing three ideas that are “meh,” then you should consider focusing on your strongest ideas, and fleshing them out as needed. It’s hard to cut out ideas that you become really attached to, but ultimately, if you force them in, then your message will come off as either clunky, bloated, or contradictory. Use the logic of the world you’ve created and account for the unique personalities of your characters when considering how they would likely respond to stimuli/plot events. Accept criticism, but don’t change the integrity of your vision solely to placate the audience. It’s your story, tell it how you want. It should come from a place of passion, so use it. Have fun with it.

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#4

I hope this will help you,

*What do you look for in a visual novel?
When I pick up a new visual novel I always look for some interesting characters, I really love when all the characters have different personalities. VNs like 999 or Umineko do their best to develop the characters and that’s why they can pull of some of their weirdest plot twists and wham lines. I’ve read that some authors try to match their characters to some of the “personality types” that exist according to the enneagram or the Myers Briggs Type Indicator.
I also think that the music is really important, the music is what sets a visual novel apart from literature. Sometimes the music can make a scene more impactful, the use of leitmotif and the different arrangements of some pieces may change the way you read a scene. You don’t have to be the best composer to integrate the music, just check some examples like Doki Doki Literature Club or Higurashi’s first chapter.

*What’s the one thing you feel that visual novels need to have but most often don’t?
Some visual novel’s do not really have a real MC, they use their MC as an audience surrogate or have the densest MC ever. Some of the most interesting VNs that I’ve read change the narrator during the game, that wouldn’t work if the MC did not have his own personality and stuff hahaha.
Also sometimes the use of character tropes can be a turn-off, but if you subvert the trope or use the trope as “mask” that the character puts on it can lead to some interesting developments.

*What advice would you give to someone off starting their first visual novel or trying to make the best visual novel?
The first visual novel you develop should be short, you should consider writing a kinetic novel (a VN with no choices like Planetarian and Harmonia) or a visual novel where you only have 1 or 2 ends. If you are not that good with art you can ask for help, you can always contact with a pro too.

Good luck!

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#5
  • What do you look for in a visual novel?

    • I think that I'm always searching for some kind of complement to my life. It doesn't necessarily need to be something that will hit me strongly enough to change the way I act in my daily life or something like that (although that would be pretty awesome), but I think it needs to prove itself useful for me. Like, for example, a calm, moe, funny story, that helped me get rid of the fatigue of an exausting day at school or something like that. Regardless, I still expect the technical aspects of the game (story, principally) to be in a level where it doesn't make me think I'm losing my time.

  • What's the one thing you feel that visual novels need to have but most often don't?

    • Probably, meaning. Like I said in the other question, if it doesn't make my day any better it's just a waste of time for me. I hate it when I finish an anime or any other kind of work of art, and this feeling of "So, what now?" burst up in my mind. In my opinion, if you do meaningless art, you're not doing art at all (Not that it is wrong to read something just for fun or spent some time, just this in itself has it own meaning, I myself do it quite often and I'm pretty conscious this is what a whole bunch of people look for in the media in general).

  • What advice would you give to someone off starting their first visual novel or trying to make the best visual novel?

    • Since it's the first visual novel you're doing I'd do it without so much "ambition". Just keep it in a way you can clearly get the message across without pushing yourself too much. For the part regarding "making the best visual novel", I don't think anyone would be able to make something that is "the best" for everyone, but I really believe that one is able to make "the best" for himself. I mean, if it's something you loved making, and is satisfied with the upshot, you don't need to rely on other people's opinions. So do it primarily for you, and it'll be just as if you were giving a piece of you for everyone to read.

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#6

What do you look for in a visual novel?
I honestly don’t know the answer to this. Quality, well done writing, happy stuff, and thoughtful progression and dialogue certainly are very nice, and certain topics such as horror are usually dis-qualifiers, but they aren’t requirements in and of itself.

There are many ways to balance out the different topics in each work, the order in which they are read, and purpose of each work (you’re not going to watch dealing with evil when you want to relax, and you’re not going to read three straight works that deal heavily with thought often), so trying to place something worth your time into perfect slots doesn’t really matter. You never really know what it’s like until you are into it, but it’s either worth your time to try or it isn’t worth it. You have years to read it all anyway.

What’s the one thing you feel that visual novels need to have but most often don’t?

There is too much emphasis on how good it sells or looks over how good it is. There is also too much emphasis on how short it is to get the biggest audience possible. This is (EDIT: kind of) Nekopara’s world and we all are stuck living in it, except I’d rather read something that isn’t as shallow. Very short works usually don’t accomplish much if they can accomplish anything at all, but again that doesn’t disqualify anything in and of itself.

Speaking of shallow, there is some obsession with Japanese VNs being more highly regarded than Original English VNs and that makes no sense to me. To repeat this again, it’s either worth the time to try or it’s not worth it, and if the production values are the same then what or where is the big problem? Better yet, why are you wasting time complaining and comparing them in such a manner anyway?

What advice would you give to someone off starting their first visual novel or trying to make the best visual novel?

The first thing would be to start small and learn the process of writing and creating such an art form first. You want feedback even if you greatly dislike criticism, and you want to meet people and see if other ideas and inspirations come forward. Most people are filled with good ideas that never come into light, and you might be the person to do that if you find that light.

The second thing is simply this: the most important thing a smart person who is worth listening to knows is that they know nothing. You are guaranteed to be an overall dumbass. As you grow and learn and get better at your craft, you are still a dumbass but you are likely to have so much more to offer as long as you don’t act like a dumbass. Your abilities are a wondorous gift, but you are not the second coming of anyone. You may find that closing the world off to write or create is best for you or come up with all sorts of rituals or practices, and you will likely be treated poorly because most artists are treated terribly, but you either learn and adapt and are open to it or you just become a greater dumbass.

The final thing is that, for the most part, adding pr0n to your work is stupid. Some people can write sexual material well (most can’t) but it’s very hard to be taken seriously if you have something serious to say and have to pander or sound like a teenager to do so. This said, I would welcome the challenge of combining something like OCD/moderate to severe depression/bisexuality into a romance work more often if it’s done well, but most times it’s all about the lowest common denominator.

Most people don’t have a clue what good sex is anyway because they are…say it with me…dumbasses. It’s best to realize this beforehand.

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#7

What do you look for in a visual novel?

  • For me, characters and story, especially the characters. I personally think characters are very essential in a story as they are the ones who drives the plot. Even the simplest plot line of a visual novel or any other medium will be enjoyable as long as the characters are well written. Even if you write such deep and profound or complex story or plot, if the characters are just flat cardboard or boring, it wouldn’t work. For story, I usually dislike trying hard to be complicated or trying to be deep type of plot or just adding too many unnecessary things that doesn’t contribute anything. Usually those types of story ended up being pretentious and hard to follow. I want stories that are engaging, immersive, organic and it was written from the heart. Also, interesting world building that makes me wanna read and learn more and more as the story progresses. Of course, plus points if the story will affect me on a personal level.
    Soundtracks is also very important for me as well. I don’t have to explain much as I think it’s easy to understand the reasons why.

What’s the one thing you feel that visual novels need to have but most often don’t?

  • Probably taking advantage of the Visual Novel mechanics. I haven’t read a lot so I can’t say for sure, but I want to see it to be used in a creative way like I guess in Little Busters! for example, the repeating the days, and how the characters stats grows as we start every new game, the change with the characters’ personality and scenes as we start a new game every single time, the number of light orbs etc.
    But that’s not much of a big deal for me. I can still enjoy reading a normal visual novel.

What advice would you give to someone off starting their first visual novel or trying to make the best visual novel?

  • Try not to copy anime or any existing visual novel or whatever medium you see, which I usually see in beginner’s writing, like they try to copy paste these anime tropes, anime stories that the final product ends up so inorganic. Copying stories and characters based from an interpretation of an interpretation doesn’t work that much. The best way to do is study them, dissect and analyze every aspects of those VNs. “What are the good and bad things about them?” “What makes these character dynamic so awesome?” Those kinds of things. Studying them thoroughly helps a lot. And of course, don’t limit yourself to VNs or anime/manga only, try reading other mediums such novels or watch any kinds of movies, cartoons whatever…expand your horizons. Real life experiences really works very well too. Observe your surroundings, talk to people etc. Research things especially if you’re making a plot with a culture, terminologies or something that you’re not super familiar with, although, it’s still so much better if you actually learn and experience it with your own eyes first, because writing something you’re not really familiar with is a bit risky for me.
    And like what others said, don’t get too ambitious. This is usually common mistake especially if you’re doing it for school work with deadlines. Gauge yourself, what are your strengths and weaknesses, your schedules, deadlines, and also time management. It’s really tempting to dream to make such a huge project, but once you start doing it, you start crying and regretting this decision and asking yourself ‘Why am I doing this?’ So make sure this is what you really love and very passionate about.
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#8

What’s the one thing you feel that visual novels need to have but most often don’t?

A focus… Or an obvious strong point. For example, G-Senjou has an obvious focus on the soundtrack, and every other aspect is sort of built around that. It focuses on classical music, so the narrative has a lot of similarities to the pieces it admires. The central plot devices are defined by the songs that accompany them, often taking parts of the title or elements of the song’s progression and using that within the story.
Similarly Crescendo focuses heavily on capturing stellar sound design, making use of similar sounding tracks to disguise any musical transitions, and going hard on sound effects and ambience. This sound design makes sure that the contained moments are intimate and that the immersion is never broken. This led to the game being a nostalgic look back at several important moments of a person’s life: A set of intimate scenes.
By having that pillar of obsession, an element that the creators really want to get right, the rest of the novel can be held up. Usually the VNs I read that lack such an obsession come across as ill defined and forgettable.
Having art as your focus is the best way to get sales, but probably not the best for the actual quality of storytelling.

What advice would you give to someone off starting their first visual novel or trying to make the best visual novel?

There’s a lot of advice that could be given. The most basic of which has to be: Keep a development log. Whether you’re running a git or noting stuff down in a simple notepad, always keep track of what you’ve done and when you did it. It helps in so many ways, for your organisation, for your ability to share information, and for your mental.
Also save your good ideas for later projects. Don’t start with an idea you’re overly passionate about because you won’t be good enough to achieve it and you probably won’t have the resources or connections to live up to the ideas. Work with the goal of one day being able to realise that dream project.

Advice for writing really depends on what you are writing.
Practice your characters. Write their core development—their timeline of change—in one sitting, then work around that. Always remember the fundamentals of your characters. For example, in every situation my character Furumi will always respond with “indeed” when in agreement with someone. My character Yuka will always say “the hell?” when taken aback, however another character may default to “Oh?” or “Wah?” or “Hae?” If their default habits were to suddenly change, something would feel off about them, and that can be a useful tool for a writer.
Remember to give your characters physical habits, such as a scratch of the cheek when they are thinking. Keep them in mind, but never express them as you write the character. Simply include it as a mention of posture; it adds so much to the character, and leaves room for interpretation as to what the character is thinking about.
If you’re working with full-screen text, you’ll want to learn to describe areas and events in a lengthy fashion. Spend some time outside and watch the area. Go to a forest and watch how the shadows on the ground dance as the trees above sway in the wind, or look out to sea and take note of the endless crashing of waves; notice how they spiral at their peak before falling into the greater blue. Maybe even take a camera with you; that can help your observation skills while also giving background reference for your bg artist.
If you’re including H-scenes, but you aren’t too sure how to practice writing such a thing, look for some great 1 on 1 fighting scenes in literature. The first H-scene you write will usually be a fighting scene. The pace-maker changes, as does the pace. Techniques can change up how the scene progresses. There’s an important back and forth between the behaviour of one character and the following behaviour of the other.

For art I’d give the basic character design spiel. Keep your silhouettes unique. Choose colors that match the characters’ personalities. Avoid same-face syndrome. Integrate parts of the characters’ histories into their designs. Also, if you’re using a cartoony or anime-ish artstyle, don’t be afraid to break conventional anatomy for expression’s sake. So many modern VN artists are afraid of squashing or stretching elements, but it adds so much personality to the art. This is doubly important if the game includes H-scenes; nothing is more boring than an incredibly flat HCG. A leg isn’t just a straight line, it’s a series of curves. A good professional (and child friendly) example of this comes from Splatoon, in comparing the Octoling animations to the Inklings. Also mess with perspectives. Widescreen doesn’t force you to mess with perspective as much as 4:3 did, but that doesn’t mean you shouldn’t do it.
The character artist(s) should work with the UI artist at an early stage to define the aesthetic.
The background artist, in my opinion, should create or obtain a repertoire of scenic photographs and reference images. You don’t need to outright copy real world locations, but remember their design and their placement when building the VN’s world. Any good artist knows when to reference.

For music I have two basic tips:
Don’t be afraid of making boring tracks: You need the monotonous every day songs and you need a lot of them to make sure that they don’t get annoying
Remember to make some stupid tracks: You need stupid songs for the moments in which a comedic twist comes out of nowhere.
I also personally believe you should restrict your instruments to a few core staples, and you should have some melodies that show up frequently in various tracks. This is a trick—a type of nostalgia baiting—that builds up the reader’s emotional attachment to the music by way of disguised repetition.

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#9

No matter what kind of story it is - VN, LN, movie, anime, manga, short story or whatever else - make sure to convey a message through it. Don’t go into making something with superficial and half-baked goals like “To entertain”, “To create interesting characters”, “To get a good grade”, “To make people cry”, “To put a person like X into a situation like Y”, etc. Do it because you have something to say. Make your audience think about it even while they’re currently reading/watching/playing it. Give them something to remember your story by. Something more than just cheap jump-scares or tropey tearjerkers. Don’t get me wrong, if you deem them useful, do use them - but not as your goal, but as means to your goal. It doesn’t have to be anything grand or outstanding. It has to be something important to you, something you believe in - and will therefore try hard to convey properly.

That will give your work a “core” of sorts, a foundation. Something every part of your work is connected to. The kind of mood you’re trying to create with a given bgm or background. The length of the work required to make your audience understand what you want and drive your point home. The way your characters speak and act in order to serve their purpose. And said purpose can help you give them a coherent and realistic personality. You won’t have as many “what now?” moments. It will be more about “how” to reach your goal.

Take the Key games we discuss to such length in this forum as an example.
They don’t merely make you cry. They make you think. There is essence to them beyond mere entertainment. They teach you about life itself. Every route conveys a message. Every major character has something to say and they have their own set of goals and ideals.

Now, that may sound like I’m telling you to make every project huge and very ambitious, but that’s not my intention. You don’t have to start with the most important message you can think of right away. Pick something appropriate for your current situation and purpose. This time, it’s supposed to be for school, so you do know how much time you have and you have an idea of the scope of the project. I’m also assuming it’s going to be a new experience, so this is the right time to try out many things and practice a lot. Also, don’t try too hard to make it perfect. Some of the most popular works we admire in this forum have glaring flaws. So it should be fine to prioritize bringing out the strengths over covering up the weaknesses - just make sure the flaws don’t disturb the immersion too much or too often.

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#10

Not that I disagree, but I don’t think you need to think of a message at conception. Don’t worry about needing to come up with a message before you start. You probably want to figure one out by the time you finish, but you can find that while you work on the scenario.

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#11

I mean, the myths were the first form of story, and certainly their function was to convey meaning to the things people couldn’t explain through other forms. So the concept behind making a story is to transmit a message, a meaning, explain why things are the way they are in this world. So regardless of anything, stories already carry a message and/or meaning, the thing is rather it is something valuable, something that will help other people out, or if it is some common sense everyone is already tired to know. And the way that things are transmited is really important too. Anyway, you can try to figure a meaning out of your story after you are finished with it, but I really think that a story with a pre-established meaning is easier to make and ends up feeling more “complete” (not wanting to impose anything here).

#12

I’m honestly not sure how I feel about the last few replies because I’ve never really felt the need for the works I enjoy to have a message. Countless times I’ve gone through, say, a slice-of-life with no real message that I was still thoroughly satisfied with (in fact, many of my favorite pieces of Romanian literature have no message), and every time I do so I can’t help but ask myself whether such messages are truly ‘necessary’. In fact, things like that are why I never really have an ‘ideal’ image in mind when it comes to the kind of works I think I’d enjoy most, because I know from experience that I can always be surprised, whether positively or negatively, by a given work regardless of my prior expectations, wishes, preferences and so on.

Hell, I expected to give LB! something like a 2/10 before I picked it up because, apart from it being a Jun Maeda work, I thought for sure I’d really dislike it for a lot of reasons. Being proven completely and utterly wrong is why I have no real, personal answer to the thread’s question and only have a bit of a personal counterpoint to the last few replies. I’m somewhat glad I’m not in your class because I’m sure I’d fail those finals. Good luck.

#13

It could be argued that a slice of life story is inherently an idealisation of the endless everyday concept and (to a troubled society) a work of iyashikei. Those moments of 24/7 commonality—with features such as waking up or going to work—are ones of stability and security. They’re shows of comfort, and the intent or the message behind those works typically devolves into “appreciate the things that are easy to take for granted.” The concept itself, of taking a slice of life, is naturally limited in that it doesn’t show the scope of 20, 50 or 70 years… And that, plus the lack of interest in capturing the fragility of time, is what makes slice of life so popular.

That’s why we typically see them set in moments that people long for once they are lost: Childhood, family+work life, a comfortable scheduled environment. In Japan you will also often see this represented by a things like a convenience store: a store that will always be open and available, or a train station: a place where the same trains and the same people will pass through every week. It’s also why we see the popularity of the genre rise in times of uncertainty.

So the very concept of the genre, and the very reason it exists, is by itself a message.

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#14

A story doesn’t need a message to be entertaining - but without one, it will only ever be average at best. If you want to make an impact, you have to convey something. Your story needs something of essence. Something that makes you think there was meaning to creating this particular work, something that makes your audience think there was meaning to consuming it. Because conversely, if you have nothing to say, why should the others listen? Because they have time to kill?

Creators usually try to make their games stand out from others by either trying to be innovative or by trying to outdo the rest in some aspects. Better graphics, bigger world, better music, etc. But I think giving your game a message makes it stand out - not only by the mere merit of having one, but also because it’s your message that you deliver in your way. If you pull that off properly, it will become something they can’t gain anywhere else.

There’s always a risk of sounding like you’re supposed to try to create something epic all the time, so let’s use a small-scale example:

LiEat. It’s a game. A trilogy, to be precise. It’s about a girl that can eat lies. So the topic is obviously lies. Sounds interesting, right? Gameplay is standard rpg-style. Graphics are somewhere near the scale of a Game Boy Color game. But I had a lot of fun playing it, because I liked exploring the concept of lies and see what the creators had to say about them. (Can’t say what it was because spoiler, heh.) It didn’t change my world or anything but I did feel like I had gained something from it.

I have originally intended on using “Johnnie Walker - Dear Brother” (an ad made by film students, surely you’ve heard about it) and “Shelter” (An anime short film/music video you’ve definitely heard about), but those are obviously too epic to use as examples and that would miss my point. But they do have clear messages and they do a great job conveying them, which is what I think made them… extra great and put them on a whole new level.

#15

I believe that you can create a game that does not convey a message if you focus on ambience, music or gameplay. Games like Dark Souls do not really try to tell you a message, it is usually the player that gives DS it’s own message, I’ve seen people that think that Dark Souls is all about coping with depression, people that say that it is about never giving up and people that say that it is about futility. I mean some people just played it because they enjoyed the ambience, the world building or the gameplay itself.

But when you want to focus in a media where the main appeal is the story then it is a lot harder, you can’t create something as “free” because you must tell a story using text and that will always narrow the reader’s viewpoint. You usually end up coming up with a message even if you do not notice it at first hahahaha.

About the slice of life and iyashikei… the point is usually the lack of message, I mean, I do love Non Non Biyori because it is just the ultimate way to chill after a bad day. Barakamon is also an iyashikei but it does have a message, so I guess that is a more about what the has on his head.

#16

I disagree fundamentally with the idea that it’ll only ever be average, honestly, and I think much of that is down to how I see such fictional works - namely, for those where there is a message, I don’t focus (at least not primarily) on myself or what the author has to say first and foremost, but rather look beyond that, to the motivations behind the author’s intention to state his message regardless of what it may be. No matter how much an author may try (or may not try, in Romeo Tanaka’s case…) to remove themselves as much as possible from a work outside of the intended message, their thoughts, their feelings, and often times even their experiences will come through in their writing, and those intrigue and outright interest me the most by far.

It also ties into why I’ve never personally had any interest or writing or, hell, creating anything for anyone else - I don’t see others listening as a given, something to actively seek out, but rather see it as a bonus. Every time I wrote down my thoughts on, say, various VN routes in the past (as I have when I wrote more than twice as much for Lucia’s route in Rewrite as I did for my dissertation years ago and have been planning to do the same for other routes and works in general), it was never to show them to anyone - it was only to clarify things for myself, such that I may learn far more from them than just what the author primarily intended by exploring the details of their work. That’s also what sometimes drives me to go through a certain work for the second time (or more) at a later date: it’s never for the message (as I know that already so it teaches me nothing new), but rather through using my increased understanding to learn more about the thought process behind the work and its primary components - the characters, the world, the soundtrack and so on. Also applies to hearing what others felt and learned from such works, since there is always something to be gained or understood from their opinions and, as such, is a critical part of fully enjoying said work in my eyes.

That’s why I don’t look for messages, because those details don’t even have to compose something like that in order for there to still be something really meaningful hidden underneath them. It’s good when they do, but I don’t see it as a necessity because, in my mind, all the things that are necessary must compose something meaningful by themselves, without anything else. And for me, that has almost always failed, particularly ever since I’ve started cutting back on my reading habit.

A simplified form of all this would probably be that it’s not the ‘why’ that I look for, but the ‘how’.

For the record, I do agree with the rest of your main idea - finding the right balance between having something meaningful to share and not being so ambitious as to have your plans implode on themselves is easily one of the most important things most authors, whether new or experienced, should have in mind (and probably the best objective answer for the OP), as that’s something that pretty much applies to any serious hobby out there. The closer you can get to pushing yourself without burning yourself out, the better. It’s a fair bit more complicated than that in my eyes though (but I’ll save that for a much more fitting topic).

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#18

I wouldn’t consider any of those to be slice of life stories. The genre, to me, has always been about focusing on the oft overlooked but no doubt ever-present elements of an everyday scenario. A show like Kono Sekai no Katasumi ni gives us the life of a newlywed in wartime Hiroshima, whereas something like Danshi Koukousei no Nichijou gives us the life of a group of average male teenagers. They zoom in on things such as waking up on a morning, or preparing food, or getting from location to location.
Haruhi, Oreimo, Litbus and Anohana are all character dramas, they are far from being about everyday life.

I don’t disagree, however I wasn’t meaning to single out the Iyashikei genre. I meant of it as a term for healing. My statement was that to a person that has lost such a thing as the appreciation of walking to and from school with friends, or to a society that has struggled through a scenario such as living during an at-home war, those reflective slice of life products can be in effect an experience of healing; of memorial, of recognition, and of reflection. And they become popular for that reason, so they continue to be made, and the genre ultimately prospers upon the message of appreciating an everyday scenario that although often overlooked should never ever be forgotten, because that is the security people desire in times of uncertainty.

#19

I thought I should do this differentiation between “Meaning” and “Message”. The main point of what I was trying to say when I wrote my last two replies in this thread was the “Meaning” (I must have had mixed things up, but anyway…), in my opinion, meaning is something you can’t separate from art, you can enjoy your visual novel without wanting a meaning, you can divert your eyes from it, but it’s there. It can rather be something you attributed yourself, it can mean something for the author personally, etc.

The point with the “Message” is that sometimes the work itself transmit the meaning to you (you can learn it by observing the struggles the protagonist passed by, and how he ended up getting rid of it and being happy, or why what the villain did is wrong, and many other things). I do think too that anyone wants to read a visual novel, for example, looking for what the story has to say, it is something the story ends up conveying regardless of you wanting it or not, you just have to understand the story. You can maybe not succeed in converting it to words but you understand it in a sentimental level, that’s for sure.

Found this to be pretty important because you obviously won’t find a message in a game where there’s no story, but a meaning it certainly has, in a way or another.

#20

While I agree to take back Litbus and Anohana because they clearly do not focus on what anyone would consider an everyday life at that time (or at least it wants to obviously focus their intentions on something else which we won’t go into detail about to avoid spoilers), Oreimo and Haruhi are actually fine enough definitions of slice of life IMHO. As long as the focus is on normalcy without going too far into another genre such as drama - whatever normalcy is for some of the characters involved - then that probably qualifies.

Besides, you already brought up In This Corner of the World and that is undoubtedly slice of life. However, by its conclusion it also has little healing or relaxing powers whatsoever.

I don’t believe iyashikei or healing has to be about fixing a troubled society or wishing for better days or trying to remember moments either. If the viewer goes into watching or reading such material with expectations then they are at risk of having their expectations fulfilled or shattered at their own peril. This goes for any visual novel or any work in general. In fact, I would argue that using iyashikei just to find healing is an EXTREMELY dangerous proposition.

Non Non Biyori really does have a message and purpose, but it’s just very subtle. It does a fantastic job of taking the fight-or-flight and fast paced mindset and chemicals that the brain and life are good at creating and activating other mental and glandular operations in their place. That may not sound much different than viewing a beautiful sunrise or practicing meditation or exercising, but your mind will still get it as long as you don’t go into it with expectations that get in the way.

When it comes to Dark Souls (and this is a place where visual novels are really stuck in between), there is something to keep in mind. Older video games tended to let the player’s imagination be the driver and this really can show in Dark Souls if one wishes for it. Dungeon crawlers take the shape of the player as long as its main purpose isn’t to pander, and whether or not you are part of the crawl could be a very personal decision. Newer video games tend to tell a detailed story that the player is intended to read, and sometimes throws “choices” into the game to turn it into a play-your-way game.

Designing a visual novel is more than saying that choices allow the player to play it their way, because that’s not true at all in a large number of cases. This is especially true for designing a quality slice of life work. Intentions are half of the battle, and anyone who seriously wants to write a visual novel should know this going in. If you don’t truly understand what you are trying to write, then how can anyone else?

#21

I agree a 100%, the meaning can be subjective that’s why I mentioned Dark Souls, those who talk about it having a message usually focus only on some aspects, they usually do that justify the meaning that they gave to the game.

I know this example is not really about games but here goes nothing hahaha:
Pablo Picasso’s most famous work is Guernica, Guernica is not just about the tragedies of war, it is a political statement. But you have to know its historical context to get that message.

I think that you could say something similar about Journey (PS3 and PS4). It’s “story” is told without using text, it only uses its gameplay and some cutscenes. But it does have a message according to the people who played it.

When I said that Non Non Biyori has no message I meant that it does not really have its “own” message. You are not wrong, it really is heartwarming and makes you feel good, but isn’t that the point of its genre? It is like saying that a horror movie has a message because it is frightening.

By the way I think that we may be going a bit off topic hahaha.

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