What are Spoilers?

Off-Topic
#1

This has been on my mind for about a year now. I’m not here to try to change the current spoiler guidelines (I think that they’re fine the way they are), but I just wanted to see if anyone had any opinions on this.

(using anime as reference)

So, what do you think constitutes a spoiler? I believe that it is any information that changes your impression of the show/episode before you watch it. So of course, if someone tells you “_____ person dies at the end” then you go into it knowing that they die and you are robbed of the chance to discover it for yourself. And if you were me, you’d just be sitting there waiting for it to happen.

Here’s where my opinion comes in: I believe that someone simply saying if something is good or bad counts as a spoiler. If you think something is good before you watch it, you might have higher standards for the show/episode, and may criticize it more harshly. However, if you are told something is bad, you might go in with no expectations at all and (maybe) be wowed by it.

Taking it further, could you get spoiled by a picture? Sometimes you can glean quite a bit from the art style. I remember one time I thought this one show would be bad because the art looked like the girls were covered in oil but it was actually astoundingly ok. So were my expectations lowered, causing me to enjoy it? (I mean, this is a very rare case I guess.)

So anyways, what do you guys think? What is the limit of a spoiler to you? Or do spoilers have no effect on your general experience?

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#2

I do agree with you about the whole “what changes the experience” thing is, yes, a spoiler. However, I think that being told if something is good or bad should not count as that. Something being good or bad is, by and large, a personal opinion. And since this opinion changes from person-to-person, you should take what others say with grains of salt, and discover the quality for yourself.

In that sense it’s a mix of both something that would change your perception on the show but, at the same time, something that is consistent across viewers. A character dying will be something that happens no matter who is watching; a show being bad changes depends on who is watching.

I’d like to add in, however, spoilers are also quite context-heavy. For example, if you haven’t started a show yet, knowing that one character ends up with another character may not change your perception all that much; but if they’ve seen a few episodes of the show in question, it could turn everything around. That being the case, when posting something potentially spoilers, you must always take into account your own audience. Which is why I like how we handle spoilers on here because we try to be pretty clear about it :fukowa:

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#3

I agree with this, as discovering the quality for yourself is important. But say, you like a show that everyone hates. It’d be pretty hard to continue to enjoy it when so many people constantly criticize it, and your experience may change thusly. It can vary person to person about how much they are affected by the opinions of others. So do you just silently enjoy it or do you come out as “the guy who watches trash”?

In that case, “experience” includes the opinion of the community, so I guess it can be brushed aside… (but still)

#4

I think you should just change your outlook :wink: If you enjoy something that everyone else considers trash then, well, fuck the haters! You enjoy what you enjoy, and might as well bask in it. Who cares if others think its trash, if you can find value in it, then to you, it is valuable. And if you are able to put down that value in something that other people can read and understand, you might just be able to share that value with other people, too

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#5

I’ve always wondered how much its ok to spoil when trying to get someone to watch/play/read whatever something. If I’m trying to get someone to watch GakkouGurashi (episode 1) even though the zombie aspect is the main focus of the show and might be a reason to watch it I am spoiling a pretty major moment in late episode 1 that is what got me to regard the show as highly as I did so fast[quote=“bionic, post:1, topic:3342”]
Here’s where my opinion comes in: I believe that someone simply saying if something is good or bad counts as a spoiler.
[/quote]

I agree to an extent (especially with the swaying of opinions) but I still ask how much is ok? I knew Steins;Gate is one of the most highly regarded anime of all time and still loved the VN when I eventually went through it but I do find myself being harsher than I probably should on stuff like One Piece (manga) as I go through it because it’s so popular and my expectations were a little too high.

I’ve ended up not caring about spoilers too much after I was spoiled (CLANNAD end spoilers) Nagisa and Ushio both die and (Anohana end) Menma dies while everyone can see her and still loved those. I’m not going to go out of my way to find spoilers but if someone’s trying to pitch a show to me I usually ask for them.

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#6

In my case, I’m invulnerable to spoilers since I have this rare ability of forgetting about them. I was spoiled the main CLANNAD after story events, just like @Doublethree1, but within a week I had forgotten that and it still was a shock when I watched it.

Therefore, I’m fine within a spoiler heavy environment, but I know not many have the same ability I have. In my opinion, saying whether a show is good or bad isn’t a spoiler, but I understand what @bionic says. In fact, I think bionic’s concept of being good or bad as an spoiler appears when many people say that something is good or bad. If it’s just one or two people, then you subconsciously think that it might just be the opinion of hose people, but if many say the same thing, then you somehow end up thinking that something being good or bad isn’t subjective, but rather a widely accepted fact.

An example of this would be when I watched Fullmetal Alchemist Brotherhood. It was rated number one in MyAnimeList and so many people were fond of it. I had already watched Full Metal Alchemist (the 2003-2004) anime, but I still thought that FMA would be a masterpiece. Well, I was wrong. I thought it was a plain Shounen that didn’t live up to the expectations, it hadn’t even surpassed its predecessor. So, what did I learn: don’t take what the crowds say for granted. However, for FMA, I had already been partially spoiled the experience.

Going back to plot-related spoilers, as I already mentioned, I don’t have that much of a problem with them, but if I were to explain, let’s say, Steins;Gate (anime) to a friend (who obviously hasn’t watched it yet), I’d tell them: (Very mild Steins;Gate setup and theme spoiler) It’s a nice thriller anime based on time travel. Also, please, endure it until episode 9.

So there are certain works where I think spoiling just a fair amount of the first 1-3 episodes and telling them from which episode the story starts being great is something completely fine to do. Mainly, because telling someone to just watch an anime and not telling them anything because you fear that you’ll spoil it for them isn’t the most convincing way of making someone actually watch it.

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#7

Huh, I kinda had the opposite experience with this. Before reading the manga, a lot of people hyped it up for me, and I thought it might not live up to it but it did.
The times where someone says a show is amazing, and the show delivers, are just so great :fukowa:

Being able to forget spoilers must be great…
I still remember the goddamn meme that spoiled Clannad for me

#8

I think you’re mixing up two different things there. And although it feels kinda obvious to me, the difference is actually paper-thin, so it’s really tough to explain. But I’ll try.

When you say a story is bad, all you do is giving out a personal impression, an evaluation that is clearly identified as such. Thus, it’s up to the recepient to buy into it or not, and to which extent. All you can change is someone else’s impression of a story.
By that logic, even a blatant lie would count as a spoiler.

With an actual spoiler, like “___ person dies”, you’re giving out “real” information. Even if the recepient doesn’t believe you, the impact of the reveal still lessens. The only way to resist it is to forget the spoiler before it becomes relevant. By revealing something that’s is not yet supposed to be known, you actively mess with the author’s intention as he’s carefully guiding his audience down the path he has laid out. Basically, you’re interfering with the story itself.

Sure, it depends on the author’s skill whether or not he can get the audience to think and feel what he wants them to, so a bad author may not get his message across and even falsify it, but that’s a different issue. Again, if you convince the reader that a story is “bad”, you make the author’s job harder, but if you interfere the flow of information, you make the job impossible, UNLESS his information management is messed up and you somehow “fix” it with your interference.

I know I’m sitting on my high horse here, but I think that, with so many grading sites around, people so focused on whether something is “good” or “bad” that they’re getting tunnel vision. Right now, you’re only concerned about whether the viewer/reader will find a story “good” or “bad” depending on whether or not you say something to them. But that’s just the last part, a subjective evaluation of their experience. On the other hand, by revealing “real” information to them, you change the experience itself. The meaning of a scene may change. The things that were supposed to be conveyed may not get conveyed. You see, what a certain scene, development etc. makes you feel are things like joy, sadness, disgust, etc. but not “it was good” and “it was bad”. As I said, that’s only the evaluation of what it makes you feel. By influencing that evaluation, all you change is the intensity of what is felt, but not its nature.

…well, this doesn’t sound very convincing, but I hope I could get my point across, even if just by a little bit.

#9

So if we are talking about Spoilers I would probably give my definition of it. For me, something its considered a spoiler when it simply has to do with a major plot point through a series (a plot twist, a character death, what happens in a battle [that depends in itself though], an ending or major conclusion to the series), and something that’s considered spoilery for me, would probably affect my further enjoyment on the series. For example if I liked a certain series, then out of nowhere someone spoils me a major death or something that I didn’t saw coming, then I would be pretty pissed and when I watch it I wouldn’t feel the same feel as everyone else because I already know it would happen. Sure you can argue that you would probably feel emotions but not as much compared to everyone in my honest opinion.

Considering we’re also talking about “good” and “bad” shows in the next one and the standards of expectations then, it really depends in all honesty. For me, if someone tells me something is good I may probably go on a way to criticizing a show because I would think otherwise. That all depends on the reception, the people that talks about it, the discussion, or if the show is actually finished, overall thoughts. It might go and make me feel the opposite effect but that all depends on how I am expecting the show. I don’t really consider this as a spoiler (unless someone does spoil something in a discussion or for example a recommendation section) since that in itself is on a different category for my end.

As for the pictures, if you’re talking about expectations, that REALLY depends in all honesty again. But if you are ACTUALLY talking about picture spoilers in itself that depends as well, for example one scene would be taken out of context of a scenario or its not really the entire thing, it all depends really. If the picture gives also a text that SPOILS, then that’s a problem.

Those are my thoughts on the manner for this.

#10

For me, a spoiler is any bit of information that changes a newcomer’s experience from what it would be otherwise to a noteworthy degree. Giving away twists is the most obvious examples, but simply knowing which episodes/chapters stand out may also constitute one.

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#11

I mean spoilers are only as problematic as you, the individual, make of it.

It can be something in a plot that was supposed to be a surprise that you find out about by mistake. It can be anything that is part of a story that you haven’t experienced yet, but construe it as being a spoiler because you won’t have the same initial response as if you didn’t know, as well as other possible examples.

But my two cents on spoilers:
Personally I don’t really care about them. But most people do.
For me, even if I get spoiled, as long as the way things unfold is still engaging and meaningful then I don’t care if I find out beforehand.

Ultimately if a spoiler does dumb down the experience, then all it says to me is that the “spoiler” is something that carried the series based on emotional, or first time response alone. Thereby probably implying that the series in question isn’t very good due to not having more to offer outside of the initial shock/surprise value.

I got spoiled major on Little Busters, and Clannad. Still my 2 favourite series. Ain’t even mad.
Why? Because they were and are amazing stories, even if I did know the big plot twists. That didn’t ruin it because they both tell a beautiful story regardless.

1 Like
#12

That’s a harsh inference to make; more likely it just means that experiencing the series unspoiled is quite unique and something you can treasure even later on when you do know everything already, and you always have that experience to look back on on further play/watch/readthroughs.

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#13

I mean if I think back on all of the series I’ve experienced that I treasure. Pretty much all of them I was spoiled on in one way or another.

I’ve come to a point where spoilers won’t have an influence on me, because even if I do get spoiled, I know that it’s my own viewing experience that it going to make a scene or aspect memorable because of the meaning I give it to whether if its on a personal or surface level.

As an analogy of my stance.
I get hungry. I don’t care if I know I’m going to eat a tuna sandwich, I just want to fill my stomach and feel happy that I was able to eat and if it was a good experience, chances are I’ll remember it as something good. Not all sandwiches are made the same, despite being the same in principle.

Similarly with spoilers, I don’t care what happens or how it happens. I’m inevitably going to experience it myself to see if there is something in there that can have an impact on me regardless of if I know what it encompasses beforehand. It’s more about appreciating what was made, and how it was delivered that will make me remember something.

[EDIT]
That’s all quite abstract, but an example.
Say… Little Busters. I was spoiled on the big Secret of the World. But even then, just because I know they are in a dream world, and everyone was in a bus accident doesn’t mean I can’t still read/watch the series and feel inspired by the dialogue, be enthralled by it’s themes, and feel emotional when things get intense. Simply knowing facts about the plot unfolding didn’t take away my experience even if I knew it was coming. It was still memorable, and probably left as big of a lasting impression as if I hadn’t known. The only thing absent was a sense of surprise, but then again I more or less pieced it together fairly early.

#14

I was also a bit puzzled on what people constitute as a spoiler.

Correct me if I’m wrong. To me, spoilers are as was described, “facts” from the story that gives a lot of “info” about the plot of the story and it’s course. Spoilers especially refer to stuff like plot twists, detailed descriptions of interesting story arcs, endings, etc.

I’m not sure if quoting meaningful lines that are not from a pivotal point in a story constitutes as a spoiler. But I hope someone can clarify a bit cause I was quite surprised when my planetarian post was flagged as spoiler material. (I’ve since changed it and nobody’s re-flagged it so I guess I fixed the problem). But just curious.

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#15

Spoilers are plot points that, when informed to a person yet to experience it, will “spoil” and/or dampen the enjoyment that could be felt when the person experiences it.

What constitutes as spoilers depend from person to person, but what I personally see as a spoiler are mainly suspenseful and/or shocking moments and twists in plot, and endings to plot-driven stories. Stuff like “Character A will get badass later on” doesn’t feel spoilery to me because it feels more expectation-setting than anything (it’s actually what sells me to coming-of-age stories haha). Meanwhile “Character B dies” is without a doubt a spoiler, due to its shocking nature.

Of course this depends, and I’d like to raise an example question here: do you think the general statement of the plot development from the first episode of Akatsuki no Yona is a spoiler? Honestly, I’d like to think no because it occurred very early to the story. Or maybe an example closer to us and a question perhaps more difficult: Do you think the general premise of the story beyond Rewrite’s common route constitutes as a spoiler? The VN seems to say no, though, considering the VN’s Opening sequence showed a few CGs that suggested something about Kotarou and Shizuru in particular.

Then again, this depends from person to person, which is why I just keep safe and spoiler-tag even hints to latter developments. :stuck_out_tongue:

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#16

I am pretty much a “blind bat” type too. I don’t want any info about something. Even something simple like hearing the music for the first time while playing the game is important to me. I do feel like people opinions on the quality of work do hamper my ability to enjoy. I feel that average person is a too negative, they believe too strongly in what they believe in. Also I feel the average anime viewer has a different view points than me.

For the longest time, I would view anime the following way; first I would see what spark my interest, then I would go to Mal for the score a make a choice, then one day many years later I realized I was just watching “garbage” other people want to watch so I made the plunge and watched “garbage” I wanted to watch… Who cares about ratings or some guys review rant. To avoid this you just simply take the positive sides that give you a reason to watch it rather than reasons to not to watch it. You are always going to watch things you don’t like from time to time after all.

It is not really spoiling because you can just ignore it. A non spoiler review can’t contain much info about the plot so it is rather vague. It is just blah blah blah this is what I thought was wrong with it or great about it. I almost always ignore completely negative reviews, all it amounts to is saying I didn’t like it over and over again.

Spoilers to me is just anything, However if you see nothing or know nothing about an anime how am I suppose to know if I want to watch it? That is why reviews and early on developments are not considered spoilers. So you can get a preview of what it is. Example: I watched sakamoto cause I saw random clips of it, even tho some of the jokes where spoiled it made me watch it so it was okay.

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#17

I think it’s really simple. Spoilers are literally called spoilers because they spoil your experience watching/playing/reading something. So in my opinion, anything from an external source which ruins your experience is defined as a spoiler. Meaning, it does not have to neccessarily be a reveal of the upcoming plot ( although it mostly will be ).

#18

Yeah but something that may ruin one’s person experience may improve another’s. Some people hate even being told that an upcoming episode of their favourite TV show was really good, but other people may just get more excited to watch it. That’s too subjective a definition.

#19

Spoilers are entirely subjective though, so it makes sense if the definition is equally subjective.

#20

That’s true, maybe it would have been better for me to have said it was a vague definition instead. And it may be as good a definition we can hope for ¯\(ツ)/¯