Tomoyo After - Tomo Arc Discussion

I will give you that. Considering how secretive Tomo’s mom tends to be, she might not have wanted to give the details to the main characters. I can buy that.

That’s true. But I believe through thorough research, one can avoid a number of mistakes. And besides, some of the best writers are recognized as such for being bold and taking chances that others wouldn’t have.

I think I’d consider it the prologue to After (After arc spoilers) considering it’s central purpose seems to be building up to Tomoya’s collapse.

I am of the opinion that, if they tell us “you would know what disease is if you watched TV”, they might as well just tell us which disease it is. It’s extremely minor, but it felt a bit bait-and-switchy to me.

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…this arc is going places! I’m pretty sure this is the first time I’ve seen prostitution mentioned in a Key series before.

Well hey now, nobody said anything about prostitution :wink:

I know, right? I was pleasantly surprised they hinted at something like that, too. It definitely helps contribute to this story’s already very unique feel.

Well, I did in the discussion :stuck_out_tongue:
But nobody did in the game, that is correct. Although something in this direction is definitely hinted at, as @DangoDaikazoku said.
You know, with Clannad’s overarching theme of life, I really feel that this story takes the opportunity to get some aspects of life into its story that Clannad itself couldn’t or didn’t touch.

It’s really hard to talk about Tomoyo After without gushing over best girl Kanako! She’s selling herself too shorttttttttt~

I say, I enjoyed reading this arc (Takafumi arc, too, but enjoyed this more). I’m really digging the dynamic between most of the characters, and how they’re all pretty well-written. My gripe is just that it all feels too ideal? Would changing the attitude of the entire community really be that simple? The way the story went with it did make sense, like how all the people in this isolated community found their raison de etre from their desire to accommodate a child who’s about to lose her mother, but for some reason it felt like it just happened rather too instantly.

But hey, if it meant more of Kanako being awesome, I’m fine with it. :stuck_out_tongue:

Meanwhile, it might just be more of a matter of taste than anything, but even after finishing this arc, I still don’t find myself digging Tomoya and Tomoyo’s dynamic. Granted, I already finished the whole game, so I’ll put my final verdict on the couple in the After Arc discussion instead.

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Doesn’t it just seem simple because that development happens off screen? (Whether that is good or bad is of course also up for debate)

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This is probably actually my biggest dislike of this arc. A lot of the things that happen seem kinda unbelievable to me. I don’t like how Kanako just goes off and suddenly makes a difference off screen that much.

I also think Tomoya suddenly deciding to build a fucking school is a bit unbelievable too. It suddenly almost feels a bit cliche, where they miraculously save the village and build a school, it’s a little silly.

I’d probably rather preferred the focus to be more on what Kanako did maybe? The entire village kind of has a revalation overnight and all of a sudden comes to help him. Either showing more of what Kanako did or make the change more gradual, with maybe a few villagers Tomoya got to know helping him out at the start, that could’ve been better.

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That’s another issue too. But it still felt like it happened way too smoothly, regardless. :\

On another hand, I think that’s the point of the arc: the idea is certainly ridiculous, but why should we not do it? :>

I don’t find it so unbelievable that Tomoya would actually try out Kanako’s idea because Tomoya himself is a bit of an oddball. He’s dedicated himself to extremely difficult tasks before and considering the resources available, I don’t think it’s that unreasonable.

However, I will agree having Kanako inspire the villagers off-screen was a bit cheesy. I like what they were going for, but since this development is paramount to Tomoya completing his goal in time, it really deserved to be shown rather than told.

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Hoo-boy, I’ll respond to these comments in the podcast.

I really, really liked this arc. The other arcs were decent, but this feels like one of the best story arcs Key has ever done to me. I’ve been quite critical before now, but there’s so much good writing to appreciate here. It’s like everything was building up to this.

Was half expecting Takafumi to become the teacher though…

However, the story isn’t over yet, which is quite surprising itself.

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Well, due to lack of time and some other things, I’m joining a bit late, but I’m still happy to see that many people are commenting on this arc. Anyway, without further ado, here are my thoughts.

This arc stood out a lot compared to the two previous ones. There isn’t as much comedy, but rather a controlled drama and interesting character development from many characters. Also, the approach to this arc was a lot more ambitious than in Takafumi’s, where everything was handled following a more typical plot development.

The main thing I loved from this arc was Tomoyo’s piece of character development. The VN is called Tomoyo After, but up until now we hadn’t seen her as a truly important character. We are shown how even though we might have personal believes, we aren’t always correct and should accept others perspectives. This looks quite simple to many of us, but her reaction to Tomoya and pretty much everyone ignoring her opinion was very childish. This helped consolidating Tomoyo’s image of a very decent person with outstanding morals, but that still hasn’t finished growing up and has a long way to become an adult.

Another thing I saw discussed a lot in your posts is how Tomoya building a school and Kanako rallying the whole town in a matter of one or two days was unrealistic. Well, I’m of the opinion that it’s, indeed, not realistic, however, I’m glad that they did it this way because then there’s a message that can be extracted from this: We shouldn’t abandon ideas just because they seem difficult. We shouldn’t quit as soon as we find difficulties. We have to keep going to achieve our goals.

Now, I think Kanako’s part of this message could still have been conveyed if she had been let some more days for the transition of the villagers attitude to be more smooth, but Tomoya and the school is a different matter. What shocked me from this part is how at the moment they came up with the idea, I just thought “quit. It’s impossible, it’s not just builidng it, it’s finding a teacher, pass quality certifications…”. Nonetheless, when I finished the arc, I was left with a completely different impression: “it wasn’t about granting a future for Tomo. It was about telling the villagers that they can achieve almost everything they can. It was about giving them hope through a demonstration that stupid, difficult things can be done with everyone’s help.”

I’ll link this up to something I heard in a video this last week. It’s about Japanese mentality vs Western mentality. Japanese are taught to prevent problems. Everyone is an expert on not fucking up what they do, that’s why they are so efficient. However, in western countries, we are taught how to solve problems, so we may fuck up, but will end up solving the issues. This might look bad, but it allows for creativity, because if we want to face a project never done before, there’ll be things we won’t be able to prevent, but if we can solve them we’ll be able to be original while giving good results.

The reason I mentioned this is because Tomoya building a school is a clear example of a project never done before by the main characters or the villagers. Therefore, I think this arc had a much greater impact on Japanese readers just because of the way everyone has been raised and taught both at home and at school.

Now, back to some more plain stuff. Emotion wise, this arc delivered. The ending, the promise, the CGs and the music. Everything cranked up the emotions given by this arc. Looking back to Takafumi’s arc, the ending in this one felt vastly superior just because Kanako, who paid an imporant role in Takafumi’s arc ending, hadn’t been given enough development or lines and everything ended up feeling like an sea without a single river disemboguing: it was a good ending, but there was no lead up to it.

Instead, as a whole, this arc felt more compact, more properly knit. It was a story that begun in Tomoya’s house and ended in that village. Many things happened in both places, but nothing felt out of place. Even the transition from one place to the other was smooth.

A final remark I wanted to make is that you could have chosen to have sex with Tomoyo at a given time, but that would have led into a bad endng. I found this H-Scene placement (in the 18+ versions of course) perfect. It’s not plain fanservice. It’s more. It’s making you choose: do you want fanservice? Or are you a decent person that knows that sex at that specific point was a crazy idea, and is determined to solve the problem going on with Tomoyo oposing Tomoya’s idea of building a school?

And now that I mentioned the bad ending, I though I’d give it a paragraph. It was pretty nice to see how not all bad endings end with something explicitly bad. Everyone returns to their previous state, but Takafumi and Kanako are now together, Tomoya has partially developed a great power of will. It could have been more, but who cares about their development. There’s something more important. They are all happy, and that’s what everyone should care about. This is something I’d like to see in other “Bad Endings”. I’d like to see how they are not the main ending written for the VN, but rather an alternative happy ending.

Well, this is it for Tomo’s Arc. There are some things uppon I would have liked to expand, but it would have overlapped with things I have prepared for After Arc and I don’t wan’t to place spoiler tags here. I’ll wait one more week until the finale (unless we are doing a Dungeons and Takafumi’s week, which, by the way, I’d love).

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Now that you’ve pointed this out I can’t stop thinking about it and I love it. It’s like the game is literally speaking directly to the readers that expected this game to be more of an H-heavy game and were possibly a bit disillusioned with the complete lack of sex scenes since the prologue. So right at this climactic part of the story it’s like, hey, do you want to abandon the plot and just have some sex scenes (in which Tomoya himself even points out that it’s pure pleasure, not love) or do you want to see where the story can go from here? And of course while either choice is fine the devs certainly want you to pick the latter.

You may say it’s a coincidence, but that’s hardly the only time Tomoyo After gets meta ^^

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I’ll concede it’s not a terribly bad end, but I wouldn’t call it an “alternative happy ending”. Tomoyo manipulated Tomoya in a crude, base manner, and he fell for it. He’s obviously upset he failed to accomplish what he wanted to, and is harboring regret even in the end. It may not be as bitter as Takafumi’s bad end, but the circumstances that built up to this end left a bad taste in my mouth.

Keep in mind, you can get the same bad ending through numerous choices. Not having Kanako or not building the school would both lead to the same conclusion.

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I forgot about that. I can stomach those variants a bit more because the thought of Tomoyo objectifying herself just to lure Tomoya away from his goal is reprehensible.

Isn’t that the point though, though? By leaving a bad taste in your mouth, it strengthens the fact that this is something that is wrong! Even though it ends up fairly peacefully, that bad taste lingering should prevent you from accepting anything other than Tomo going back to her mom

That’s true. I just feel like the way they tried to get that point across in the particular variant of the bad end discussed here is a bit too desperate and out of character for Tomoyo. I think the tamer variants of the bad end do a decent enough job of hinting that by doing this, they’re running away from a looming responsibility without potentially derailing Tomoyo’s character.

I dunno, it seems pretty Tomoyo to me :stuck_out_tongue: she’s always been pretty dense about things, so thinking that Tomoya wants sex isn’t really unbelievable.

Then her using it in the next days to stop Tomoya adds in to her pushy personality pretty well.