There is frequent dialogue throughout the demo that only makes sense if we specifically assume that, by “Angel,” they mean a servant of God. From Angel saying “I’m no angel,” to the logic that God must exist because His angel exists… It’s all over the place. The term is indubitably being used as a descriptor, and to say otherwise is simply incorrect.
If those examples went over your head, then let me try this one: leaving it as “Tenshi” is as silly as leaving “keikaku” untranslated.
Actually, now that i’m on the topic of hacking into the engine and programming the patch: where did y’all learn the details of that kind of programming? My work involves programming and mathematical modeling in Java and Python, so if there’s some way I can learn details about the hacking/programming the patch and engine, let me know! I can pick stuff up quick and it’d be really useful for me (and hopefully you all, as well) in the future.
That’s why you TL it as angel in instances it’s referring to that and not Tenshi, just as a person reading in in Japanese would do, and in the cases when it does refer to her the reader knows what it means in context because of using a TL note.
It shouldn’t be- It baffles me that we even have this conversation coming up again. Also that’d be really silly imo.
Guys. Stop. I mean COME ON. It’s Tenshi because that’s how it was established in Heaven’s Door. AS A TITLE. A NAME. There is no reason to go against Maeda himself, now is there???
It seems pretty clear from previous comments that this is a deep divide between the two views. I don’t think it’s silly to have a “TenshiAngelName = 0” variable in a ‘settings.txt’ document included with the patch. If we made the default 0 = Tenshi, those in the know (and who read the Readme.txt) can just switch it to = 1 for Angel if they want. Changing the text in the patch accordingly shouldn’t be too difficult, if I understand the way speech tags are programmed correctly. I’d even volunteer to do it myself, if someone can help me grasp how the patch programming works, and in what language.
But there’s not really a problem if we don’t do this. It’s just a name, after all.
I can understand why people would want to keep Kanade’s nickname as “Tenshi” in the translation, but I feel it’s important to keep in mind that the word “tenshi” is literally the Japanese word for angel. It’s basically the equivalent of wanting to keep a character’s nickname or title as “Neko” when you could just simply translate it as “Cat”. By keeping it as “Tenshi”, you’re making an obvious descriptor of that fact that she looks like an angel into something obscure to the average reader defeats the point of her having that nickname to begin with.
I feel that important rule of thumb to keep in mind about translation is that if you have to use footnotes in the translated dialogue in order for your average native English speaker to understand that Tenshi = Angel, then that’s a sign that it’s better to just translate the nickname as “Angel” instead of keeping it as “Tenshi”. Don’t get me wrong, I’m used to using “Tenshi” myself. However, in this case, I feel it’s better to go with the official translations’ choice of “Angel” instead of going through all the trouble of keeping it as “Tenshi”.
I don’t think you understand. They don’t call her Tenshi because she looks like an angel. They gave her the name “Tenshi”, just as a parent would give a child the name “Yuri”. Hinata and Yuri were discussing what to call her, and Hinata said (basically): “Why don’t we call her Tenshi, because she is like a helper of god”.
You are aware that sentence makes zero sense to someone who knows no Japanese unless you rewrite it as, say, “Why don’t we call her Angel, because she’s like God’s helper,” right?
Like, I don’t know if you’re fluent in Japanese or not, but that line is a pretty clear argument in favor of translating it as “Angel.”
Then you better be translating Yuri as “Lilly.” Thats all I have to say.
The difference is that Hinata and Yuri are actual Japanese names that don’t have singular meanings while “tenshi” is literally just a word in Japanese that means angel in English if you translate it. They’re literally just calling her an angel because they think she’s an angel.
The reason no one translates the name “Yuri” as is Lilly is because that’s an actual Japanese name while “tenshi” is just a word in Japanese instead of an actual name.
Except the fact that “Yuri” means “Lily”* is no more relevant to the plot than the fact that, say, “James” means “supplanter.” Meanwhile, the plot practically revolves around the assumption that Angel is a servant of God.
You’re making a false equivalence here.
*actually, her name is written without Kanji, so it doesn’t really mean that. But I digress.
I wouldn’t consider that the same unless the point of calling her “Yuri” was to say she looked like a lily. I’d say that’s more arguable to if people were saying we should call Kanade “Musician” (according to Yahoo answers so might be wrong).
“Why don’t we call her Tenshi (TL note: Tenshi means Angel), because she’s like God’s helper.”
Proceed to call her Tenshi, her title.
Proceed to translate the word tenshi when it is used as a word and not in reference to the girl, Tenshi.
@Lilu Please correct me if Im wrong, but aren’t most Japanese names just a word/words in Japanese?
@Doublethree1 And she doesn’t look like an angel! SHE A NORMAL HUMAN BEING! The only reason they have to call her an angel is because that’s what Yuri told them her name was.
@dowolf, you have the most relevant point. However, a single TL note would solve this. I just don’t think we should translate names.
I worded it that way because I didn’t think saying “Yuri is comparable to a lily” would fit right but now I see I was basically calling Kanade an angel which obviously isn’t true.
Again, I can only refer you to the “keikaku” meme.
…Like, part of writing is engendering a feeling in readers. The idea of an angel intrinsically means something to a lot of people, probably most English speakers. “Tenshi,” meanwhile, means nothing in English.
Ultimately, the only argument in favor of leaving it as “Tenshi” is a belief that things should be Exactly The Same. I hold it as self-evident that this argument is foolish, and a cursory examination of professional translations (including Angel Beats’, plus the examples I quoted earlier) shows a strong agreement with this.
[quote=“Yerian, post:214, topic:1226”]
@Lilu Please correct me if Im wrong, but aren’t most Japanese names just a word/words in Japanese?[/quote]
Most, not all (notable exceptions include e.g. most female names from pre-Showa Japan), but do keep in mind that the same can be said for names in most any tongue (Western civilization is sort of weird in that most names only have meaning if you backtrack to Latin, Greek, or Hebrew).
[quote=“dowolf, post:216, topic:1226”]
Ultimately, the only argument in favor of leaving it as “Tenshi” is a belief that things should be Exactly The Same.
[/quote]And the fact that its HER NAME. The only argument in favor of changing it to Angel is so that the reader knows what her name means (because you are right, it is very relevant), which can easily be solved by a TL note.
[quote=“dowolf, post:216, topic:1226”]
and a cursory examination of professional translations (including Angel Beats’, plus the examples I quoted earlier) shows a strong agreement with this.
[/quote]How about the professional translation of planetarian? Basically the same situation. Sekai Project left it as Yumemi because that is her name, and added a TL note that explained the relevant translation of her name.
My reasoning for it to remain Tenshi is that I find it adds character to Kanade when seen in English, (ie. Calling Yumemi in planetarian Yumemi), it provides a better understanding to the reader that there is a difference when referring to her or when referring to God’s helpers- Which as we both know there is a distinction there, and that when reading the work itself and hearing a character shout ‘Tenshi!’ when referring to the girl, and reading ‘angel’ it would look silly and take away from immersion.
I however didn’t feel it necessary to explain because, again, the title was already agreed upon as a name. It means a name. I don’t read ‘Bob’ and question what Bob means because I can go, ‘Oh, that’s a name.’ much like how I would when I see Tenshi. That is that girl’s name that she was given.
Please do not get me started on Sekai Project’s translation of Planetarian, or we will be here all night.
But there isn’t a difference–they are literally calling her God’s helper.
I am not saying that this makes the translation incomprehensible–I am saying that it makes the translation less.
Fair enough.
