Planetarian - Yumemi Hoshino Character Discussion

Between Planetarian launching on Steam, the Book Club that followed, and the recent anime adaptation, I’m genuinely surprised this discussion isn’t already a thing, as far as I know, anyway.
Feel free to discuss anything Planetarian, but be sure to use the spoiler tag for anything from any other work as necessary.

Anyway, of all of the things that I want to bring up about Yumemi, and believe me, there is plenty, there is one thing I want to bring up right now, and it’s something I’ve been thinking about a lot as I’m rereading the VN: is Yumemi acting purely based on her programming, or does she actually have a soul of her own? I hate to think that the Junker’s change of heart and emotional attachment was caused by nothing more than a hunk of metal and a series of ones and zeros, but it’s something I can’t not think about. Then again, with all of what he’s gone through, I honestly wouldn’t blame him for feeling that way.
Quite honestly, even if that is the case, that really doesn’t change what, or more properly, who she is: a sweet and kind girl lost in her own time, blissfully unaware of the outside world. She feels real enough to me, and that’s all that matters.

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Yes, she is just a hunk of metal.
But if there’s anything the vn made me realize the first time I read it, it’s that it really doesn’t matter.
If a robot has the ability to generate something equivalent to emotions (which I have absolutely no doubt future technology will be able to do) and express them, even if those emotions aren’t generated the same way they are with humans, those humans shouldn’t just think of those emotions as processes anymore. feelings are feelings and they deserve to be treated as such.
I’d actually like to take this philosophy even further, and say that even a toaster has feelings of sorts, and deserves to fulfill it’s purpose (in the words of Terry Pratchett; “all things strive”) but that’s not really relevant to this discussion.
I know many people here are religious and probably believe in a soul of some sort, and I can’t really argue about those kinds of questions. Just consider the fact that religion itself is a very emotional thing, and doesn’t care as much about being completely rational.
tl;dr Yumemi is just a hunk of metal filled with ones and zeros in the same way that the junker is just a lump of meat filled with hormones. Deal with it.

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I think her “humanity” is one a recurring theme in the VN. Although Yumemi is a complex robot, she does react to various questions in ways that feel pre-programmed. Heck, her unending optimism and enthusiasm is likely a consequence of the way she was built.

The end of the VN is the only thing that draws this into question. Initially, I was inclined to agree with @John_Smith and say she didn’t have a soul, but I’m not 100% sure about that. Key’s works have a habit of imbuing otherwise inhuman entities with fully-developed personas (They’ve used kitsune type characters, the garbage doll from Clannad, (Big Air spoilers) and the crow from Air ). So, as overly idealistic as it is, I wonder if Yuichi Suzimoto is trying to argue that at the core of it, she IS ‘human’ in an emotional sense. By forming bonds with her co-workers and the Junker, she’s able to transcend her robotic programming and grow lasting attachments with people. However, her saving the Junker could just as easily be something she’s programmed to do. I imagine her circuits tell her to do whatever’s possible to help a customer who’s in danger. However, the fact that she is deteriorating, yet still able to have a fully developed relationship with the Junker is food for thought.

I never said she didn’t have a soul (I don’t believe in souls, so that’s irrelevant as far as I’m concerned), or wasn’t ‘human’ in any way. I simply mean that character and character development, attachment, compassion, emotion, however you want to put it, isn’t in any way exclusive to humanity. Calling the emotions expressed by a robot ‘fake’ (no matter how they are actually generated) is like saying that your own source of emotion (which is basically just hormones anyway) is superior and is therefore nothing short of racism.

Anyway, nihilism aside, one thing I really loved about Planetarian was that it never really took either side in this argument. It just showed you both the characters and what they thought and represented, and let you form your opinion. Suzumoto used some very subtle writing to create that nuance, and that’s one of the main/many reasons why I admire him so much.

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I definitely agree on the thought that Yumemi is simply a robot with a pre-programed mindset. Interestingly enough, the important part here is that she was created by humans - each who has their own way of seeing things, and in particular, they are those who lived before the times of dystopia. Much like how written works are a reflection of its author’s view of the world, Yumemi’s programming is a reflection of who programmed her, namely and presumably, people who believe in the promises of the stars and of the future.

If I think about it, it makes it all the more apparent that Yumemi’s character is written as a remnant of that past, that which the Junker has never imagined before in his life.

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I like you. I think we’ll get along just fine.


As much as I wanted to make a post just to say that, I figure I should give my two cents about Yumemi, considering she is my third favorite female Key character now. What I love about Yumemi is indeed her perseverance about everything going around her; instead of believing her logic that something has happened to the world, she shrugged it off as a bug, and that she was just broken for thinking so. Her immense hope simply overrided her logic and while that is something I may be incapable of, it’s something that some people tend to neglect.

And that’s what I love about planetarian as a whole: Yumemi being this beacon of light, telling people (well, the junker) to continue hoping and reaching for the stars despite the darkness surrounding them. It’s something I cannot do on my own, and it’s something I look up to Yumemi for.

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There was a similar discussion in the Planetarian Topic about how “human” Yumemi is. In fact, there was more than one, because I somehow managed to forget the first one and bring up the topic again several months later.

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All true. And my bad on misinterpreting you. I agree with you here.

@Pepe 100% agree. I love Yumemi for all those reasons as well. I also agree with a lot of people who say the simple yet endearing chemistry between the jaded junker and her really helps make their growth more genuine. Though intially they’re at odds with each other, Yumemi treats the Junker as patiently as she would any other customer, and the Junker slowly warms up to the kindly robot. Ultimately, he learns that holding on to hope is essential to living in the world, even in the darkest of times. (End of Planetarian spoilers) In my opinion, not even her death hurts this moral. If anything, her demise reinforces how IMPORTANT it is to have hope in any situation. If the Junker viewed the event from the bleak perspective he did at the beginning of the game, he would’ve ultimately felt there was no gain from his interactions with Yumemi. But through their interactions, he’s able to fondly look back at what the world used to be and hold on to the hope that maybe some things CAN be preserved.

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@TRBO_188 You gotta specify what level of spoilers are allowed.

Introduction

Hey all,

So I know this game pretty old now, as well as this thread being a few years old, but I had a friend pick up this visual novel for me a while ago, and just finally got around to playing it. I have some questions about the story (which I will elaborate my thoughts on) that I hope will spark some discussion about the game again. Let me say, however, that I don’t think many of these questions can completely be answered. The plot, and a lot of the themes in the novel are left quite open-ended, and I’m sure this is on purpose. Still, I’m curious to see what everyone thinks about these.

1. Is Yumemi more robot-like or more human-like? Is this point relevant to the novel and/or the bond between her and the junker?

One of the strongest themes in this novel to me was exploring similarities between AI and human beings. This is of course, not a new concept (look at Westworld, 2001: A Space Odyssey, etc.), but always an interesting one. Right from the start of the game, there is immediate confusion about whether or not Yumemi is a human. She’s appears quite human at first glance, though this is quickly cleared up. As the story moves on, the bond between Yumemi and the junker obviously grows considerably, despite this knowledge.

Besides an almost exactly similar appearance to humans, what human qualities and traits does Yumemi possess which seem to make her more human-like, and which [robot traits] seem to make her more robot-like? Let’s talk about the human traits first, though before I get into that, I think it’s important to discuss human consciousness and the human experience, and how that could play into this theme. I’ll also touch on the difference between general AI and narrow AI.

Narrow AI, is artificial intelligence which is built for a particular purpose in mind. For instance, Deep Blue, the chess playing computer, is a perfect example of narrow AI. General AI, on the other hand, is not built for a specific purpose. Rather, it is designed (or trying to be designed I should say, since general AI hasn’t been achieved as of yet) to be able to handle any generalized task, much like humans can. Some experts in the field believe, however, that this may never be possible, as something so similar to a human cannot be replicated with a strict, rule-defined turing machine (modern computer). Other experts believe that with enough processing power, and with the advents of new technology, it may be very possible in the near future. Finally, many experts believe it may likely be a combination of both. Also, do AI need to have a consciousness (something like human consciousness), to truly be considered general AI?

So the, what exactly is human consciousness? It’s more than just being aware, it’s more than just having a sense of self….it’s very hard to actually describe what it is. Also, what exactly plays into us having a consciousness? Is consciousness something physical which derives from evolution and your brain? Or is it something intangible and of another realm? If humans don’t even truly understand what consciousness is yet, then is it even possible to try and replicate it in an AI? Does the human experience play into our consciousness (i.e. having a body, having language, having independent thoughts)?

Sorry to go off on a bit of tangent there, but I think it’s important to ask those questions, to see why some traits Yumemi has may make her seem human, or, a better way to phrase that, is Yumemi really so different from humans, or are she and humans essentially the same?

The most human-like traits of Yumemi for me were:

  1. Not being able to completely follow orders from humans. Some examples of this:
    When the junker kept asking her to be quiet and she kept talking.
    When the junker kept throwing away the bouquet but she still wanted to give it to him.
    When she let the 2 kids into the planetarium showing without making them pay the admission fee.
    When the junker kept asking her to wait for him when they were walking to the car, but she still came to his aid.
  2. Her dedication to care for and protect humans. Some examples of this:
    When she kept trying to ask the junker if they needed care and/or a nurse.
    Trying to stop the fiddler crab near the end of the novel.
  3. Her ideas about Heaven and gods.

Let’s break these down one by one. For (a), it seems like independent thought, and being able to make decisions for yourself is an important part of human consciousness. It also may play a crucial role in general AI, as things need a way to think on their own without a set of instructions constantly being fed to them. The idea, however, that Yumemi was fed these instructions and then disobeyed them, is very human-like. If you give an instruction to a computer, it cannot disobey that instruction, and so this quality for me is the strongest argument for why Yumemi and humans really aren’t so different.

For (b), in general it seems like most humans want to preserve as much other human life as possible. This trait, then also makes Yumemi seem no different than humans. You could also look at this trait inversely: for instance, psychopathic serial killers tend to appear very inhuman. Yumemi’s devotion to human life therefore strengthens this idea that she and humans are really one in the same. There is a caveat to this one, however, and that is that Yumemi says she was programmed to take care of humans. I think a good question then is: was Yumemi looking out for humans, and in particular the junker because she was specifically programmed to, or was she doing it because it really was what she wanted, and genuinely made her happy? Did she sacrifice her life at the end of the novel of her own volition, or was it simply her programming?

Finally for ©, I will go more in-depth on the implication of this later on in this post, but I will say now that the idea of AI believing in Heaven is definitely a little off-putting. At least it was for me. If you take into consideration that general AI may need to have a consciousness to actually be general AI, then it makes sense that one could believe in Heaven. I don’t think most people think of automatons believing in any kind of afterlife, though, seeing as how (at least we would think) they are purely physical beings.

Now I’ll go over a couple traits which seemed to lean in the other direction, and show the differences between Yumemi and humans.

The most robot-like traits of Yumemi for me were:

  1. Her routine of going into sleep mode each night, as well as hibernation for most of the year.
  2. The idea that she can very easily just switch shells, as Yumemi herself (at least appears to be) just the memory card.

As I mentioned before, being able to disobey instructions was probably one of the most human-like traits for Yumemi, so for (a) here, this is the one time she explicitly has to follow instructions. You could argue that she has to sleep just as humans do, but that really isn’t the case to me. For me, she obeys her schedule too strictly for that to be the case.

For (b), once again, humans don’t really know if consciousness is simply a product of our brain, or if it’s something more than that. If consciousness really is just simply a product of the physical human brain, and nothing else, then perhaps this feature actually is quite human-like. However, it really seems like there is more to the human experience than just having/being a brain, and so for me, this is more robot-like. As a quick thought experiment, if you could put your brain into someone else’s body, would you still be you, just in a different body? Or would you be a completely different person?

Ultimately, I would say that Yumemi has more human-like traits than robot-like ones, and there’s even some strong arguments as to how the traits I listed as more robotic-like could actually be more human-like. The point that the author is trying to make, though, seems to be that Yumemi really is one in the same as humans.

2. What is the implication of Yumemi saying she hopes that Heaven isn’t split, and that humans and robots will be together in the afterlife?

To me, this implies that Yumemi believes in some sort of afterlife. Now, we can ponder about why she doesn’t want it split. I will say, she seems adamant about serving humans, and you can pretty much use this to explain why she doesn’t want it split. However, you do have to be careful here, because I don’t think serve [serving] is really the correct word to use here. It’s clear by the end of the novel, that the junker is not the only person she had shared a close bond with. She was also very close with her coworkers at the planetarium before the war started. Beyond just serving her duties at work, she really seemed like a close friend to many people. So her service was not just the planetarium showing, but also friendliness and companionship. This is what I really think she means when she says serving humans makes her happy. She means being a good companion to others brings her joy. And in this regard, this is why she does not want Heaven split between humans and robots, as she will lose her companions, and her companions will lose her.

3. What role does the planetarium itself (and the show at the planetarium) play in the story?

This one’s pretty simple, but was a strong theme throughout the narrative so I figured I’d throw it in.

The sky serves as a symbol of hope in the novel. Long before the war, humans since the days of antiquity had looked up at the sky and were inspired by it’s vastness and beauty. And, for just as long, humans have dreamed of reaching the sky. Then, shortly before the war started, the sky still served as a beacon of hope, to start life anew on a different planet, with plenty of resources. But then the war broke out, and it sent the Earth into a 30 year period of rain. Because of the rain, you could no longer see the sky, and so the beacon of hope for all the world was snuffed out.

The junker was absolutely awestruck (and rightfully so) after seeing even just part of the planetarium showing. The junker had never seen the sky, or if he did, it was when he was very young, and did not recall it. The showing seemed to instill the junker with some renewed sense of hope, being able to see the sky like that, and even just having it described by Yumemi. I believe this to be the defining moment which truly strengthened the bond between her and the junker. It’s clear that the junker is not an optimist, and no one would expect him to be, but I think Yumemi was able to instill some hope in him that no one else ever was able to before.

4. Does the junker make it out with his life and Yumemi’s memory card? Or does he accept his death and become obliterated along with the memory card?

I really think that this is totally up in the air, basically a 50/50 chance whether or not he and Yumemi died. I believe, however, that he made it out. I will now explain why I believe this.

First off, as I described in the section before, he now has a renewed sense of hope from being able to see the sky, even if just for a little, and even if it was just a projection. Second off, he was thinking about changing professions while in the building and aiming at the fiddler crab. This was probably partially due to this new sense of hope.

As I said before as well, Yumemi gets joy out of being a good friend to her human companions. I think there is a chance, even if slim, some if not all her old coworkers are alive. Due to the junker’s new sense of hope, the best case scenario would be for him to make it out alive and everyone gets reunited. However, you could make an argument on the flipside, that all her coworkers are dead, and that by the junker dying with her memory card, they will all be together in Heaven.

5. Why did the junker decide to stay at the planetarium and fix the projector in the first place?

To me, this was the weakest part in the story. I’m not really sure why the junker decided to stay to repair the projector in the first place. I understand why he initially went in the building, but I don’t know why he stayed afterwards. I was discussing with a friend about this earlier, and they suggested it may just be because of how outwardly nice Yumemi was to the junker. The junker was just so used to meeting with other selfish, pessimistic people that something about how nice Yumemi was being made him stick around. Still, I’m not sure if that’s a super strong explanation, as I would think the junker would be desensitized to just about anything. Curious to hear others’ thoughts on this.

Wrap-up

Ultimately, I don’t think we can know for sure a lot of the questions I’ve asked here. Of course, the story wouldn’t be all that interesting if there was answer for all of these right? I do ultimately think that humans and Yumemi are one in the same, and while I do think they both made it out of the city, I’m not sure it’s relevant either way.

Thanks for tuning in <3

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Ok, so, um, firstly I’d like to try to provide counterpoints to your reasonings, and then talk about my personal thoughts.

1a: Yumemi as a human.

In most studies of AI, there’s an idea called Asimov’s Laws of Robotics that’s generally accepted as being fundamental to the formation of responsible AI. The first and most important of those laws is that an AI cannot allow harm to come to a human by any means. This supercedes the second rule, that an AI must obey all orders given to it by a human. Therefore I think it’s entirely possible that Yumemi has the desire to protect humans hard-coded into her, and that through wear-and-tear or maybe just bad logic processors, she has an odd interpretation of her imperative to “protect humans” that causes her to be unusually kind and concerned for people, to the point of hindering her ability to follow orders.

1b: Yumemi as a robot.

i: Routines.

Humans are, subconsciously, creatures of habit and routine. It’s incredibly difficult to break a habit once formed, hence the overreliance of so many people on addictive substances. This is even truer for trauma victims or people with acute depression; sometimes people in tough situations will continue acting in habit even if there really isn’t any reason to. Mothers whose babies die from malnourishment will attempt to continue to feed them, and people often find themselves returning to places in which they no longer belong (such as childhood homes or buildings that caught fire) through instinct. I feel that Yumemi’s actions in keeping her schedule are entirely within the realm of humanity, especially for someone who is experiencing the trauma of the end of the world.

ii: The body of Theseus.

The Ship of Theseus is a thought experiment that asks if an object which has had all its parts replaced is still the same object. The widely accepted conclusion, at least in my experience, is that it isn’t the physical makeup of something that determines its essence, but rather that thing’s identity. If switching bodies impacts your sense of self so much that you believe you aren’t yourself anymore then you aren’t, but I’d argue that if humans were able to change bodies often enough to become used to the idea of it, which Yumemi probably has, then we simply wouldn’t rely on our bodies as much to define our identities, and wouldn’t have any problem “switching containers.”

3: The significance of the planetarium showing.

I don’t think that the sky necessarily represents hope in the way that you’re implying. Much like MC’s interactions with Yumemi, the sputtering of Jenna before her death represents the /absence/ or /loss/ of hope. I think the story’s depiction of the sky represents the idea of sublimity; the idea that all time is meaningless in the face of the ever unchanging universe, and no matter what good or bad mankind does, the stars will keep moving as they do. But that also means that everything that mankind does is equally cemented in stone, and that it’s good to do as much good as possible. I think it represents not hope, but the irrelevance of what might’ve been and what might be, and the acknowledgement of what was, is, and will be.

4: The characters’ fates.

I personally don’t think it matters whether he survived at the end or not. What’s he going to do if he did? The world’s in a state where everything is trying to murder everything else- death is presented as /even more/ inevitable in the story’s world than in real life. But, then again, I think a major theme of the story is trying to do/be good even if you know it’s futile, and the mere action of being able to believe he survived and was able to achieve some kind of happiness is putting that theme into practice.

5: MC’s motivation.

I think his motivation was little more than “it’s something to do.” Scavenging ruins for a living is pretty taxing, so I’d imagine, and seeing a cute girl in a cute dress being cute after/during the apocalypse is inherently interesting. It’s entirely understandable, in my opinion, to just let your curiosity take hold in that situation. What else is he going to do besides get shot by Transformers?

In Finality:
Personally, I don’t think it matters “how human” an AI is. Something is not lesser than its organic counterpart solely because it’s artificial. An AI doesn’t need to aspire to attain humanity or consciousness; I think it’s fine for them to be distinct. All that matters is if you’re a good person: if you’re kind to those around you and you aim to do what you believe is right. Anything that is capable of understanding the difference between right and wrong is, in my eyes, a person, regardless of their species- what they are doesn’t matter to me when doing an analysis of someone’s character. I personally don’t believe in a benevolent God, but if there is a Heaven run by one, then I don’t think It would care what you are either when deciding what kind of person you are.

I hope all good people get their happy endings, and all bad ones get their just desserts. -Dahrkpyre

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