Little Busters! - Rin Natsume Route & Character Discussion (Spoilers for all pre-refrain routes!)

Key Discussion
#84

So I just finished Rin 2. There’s not much for me to talk about it, since it felt more like a setup for Refrain than a self-containing tale. So I’ll just raise an observation and a question:

The observation: The boys seem to be just pushing Rin around with very little regards to her agency, and it led to a lot of crap going down. Kyousuke wanted to address her social anxiety, but he ended up pushing her in a situation that would have been traumatizing to practically anyone. Riki was treating her like a helpless damsel who needs to be stayed away from danger, though I can’t really blame him exactly. On top of not giving her that much voice in a story dealing about her, neither approaches are even going to work. I’ll add to this after reading Refrain. ^^;

The question, which I’d like to raise as a Key Point: Why is Rin so insistent on not parting with the cats to the point of even abandoning Riki? I mean there’s this line:

huh
huh.png924×602 47.5 KB

…but there might be more to it. ;u;

The choose-a-classical-music-for-the-heroine gimmick: This one took me a while to decide on anything solid. I initially went with Rondo a Capriccio/Rage over a Lost Penny, but abandoned the idea because Kurugaya spoiled it haha. Then I went with Scarlatti’s Cat Fugue, and I thought I will stick with that because it makes a nice counterpart to Kud’s Puppy Waltz. And then she hAD TO NAME ONE OF THE CATS “MENDELSSOHN.” So now it has to be a Mendelssohn gdi. Felix isn’t the only composer with that surname, but I’ll go with him because his name sounds close to “feline” lmao. Well it’s nice that he seems to have a piece that I know that seems to suit Rin’s naivete just fine, and it’s Spring Song. I’m fine with this I guess.

The rating: I give Rin1 a 3 for personal reasons and Rin2 a 4. Rin1’s writing is alright, but I absolutely hated the catcalling (ayy) joke, even if it was short. Rin2 was just fine.

Looking forward to Refrain~

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#85

Since Rin1, Rin has been my least favorite LB heroine. That’s just an opinion, whatever. Rin2 exceeded my expectations in that it actually made me like Rin. I haven’t touched Refrain yet, but I’m excited to see where this leads.

However, I have a bone to pick.

I have a bone to pick with Riki Naoe.

After I finished my first route, I made a post about how I was wrong about Riki being weak and wrong to compare him to Tomoya. Rin2 leads me to believe I was mistaken, however. Riki noted that Rin was childish—which is true, and that never changed even up to the police raid—but he was unable to realize that he was equally as childish. He was foolish to believe that he would be able to succeed in running away with Rin. The moment he decided he regretted not going to university shortly after passing out in a field is precisely when I said, “This dumb motherfucker.” Am I being too hard on Riki here? I don’t know; he’s just as childish as Rin, and I don’t get on her case about it. What annoyed me the most is that Riki acknowledged Rin’s childishness while being blind to his own.

Inb4 go read Refrain

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#86

Riki was always childish. Wishing that his peaceful days with his friends to continue forever is a childish thought. But that’s what the point of this route is, to show that Riki and rin are both naive.
Riki’s decision of running away is immature, but when you see the situation he had no other option. He had been beaten by Kyousuke who wouldn’t listen to him, you could say he could have contacted the parents but as we never get the mention of them only a grandfather (who kyosuke doesn’t have good relationships with) it was safe to assume Riki also had no contact or association with them, Kyosuke was the only one who could stop Rin from going away and he wouldn’t budge. Rin’s condition would get worse as days pass.
So Riki had only two options "sit around and wait’ (in which case Rin’s condition could get worse) or ‘Run away’. it was a childish impulse and he took it as his only option.
The university thing could also not be blamed on Riki as he simply didn’t had enough time.
This route was to show both Rin and Riki’s naivety and make Riki realize that he needed to grow up. The ‘become stronger’ choice also signifies that, Riki’s promise to grow mature.

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#87

Just finished Rin2 and man was really not expecting a bad end twice in a row for Rin. One of my favorite parts about the route was the irony of how Kyousuke (vi Britannia) went from an extremely reliable childhood friend to being depicted as on a whole other level compared to everyone else with it seeming like he as everyone in the palm of his hand. In comparison, from what I’ve seen and also gathered from @Ganesh_Swami 's post, Riki and Rin seem infinitely weaker in comparison. I won’t lie, at first I didn’t think transferring schools was that monumental of an issue, especially in comparison to something like where Kud had to go in her route, to warrant running away from everything. But I suppose just like Rin’s inability to handle her new school or her uncompromising behavior during the police raid, Riki’s rash decision just shows how he is as weak and immature as Rin. Sadly this isn’t a shonen so I’m not expecting Riki to train until he achieves the ultimate power but I can’t wait to see how Refrain handles his growth in comparison to the other routes where he also grows. Also the bathtub scene was beyond amazing.

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#88
#89

Let’s kickstart the Bookclub discussion once more!

#90

Consider Rin and the second iteration of her route as both a second act to the three act structure of Little Busters as well as a test of morals and ideas that the story has spent the heroine arcs instilling into the reader. Rin 2 is where things come crashing down and the ideas that have been crystallized into the reader are destroyed. In doing so one has to question their own understanding of the story’s message as the characters themselves begin to act contrary to those ideas. The arc is a perfect amalgamation of the story at its strongest while also bringing to light some of its larger weaknesses.

Starting strong, the thematic backbone of the story is outstanding. Act 1, that is to say the heroine arcs, spend their duration teaching the reader that the story is about friendship, hope, and togetherness. It teaches through example not only that these ideas are the core tenants of the story, but also the value of each of these principles and how it relates to the characters. it teaches you that Riki’s strength as a protagonist comes from his overwhelming capacity for empathy and ties that in for everyone’s desire for friendship, that is, their desire to be understood. Flipping the script, Rin 2 breaks that down. It shows the collapse of friendship and a lack of empathy. It’s fitting that, as friendships collapse, Riki and Rin become more and more enamored with solitude in this story that is about togetherness. In this way, Rin 2 is a test. it is a test that both the characters and the reader are set up to fail. it is a test to see if Riki and Rin have acquired sufficient “strength” to walk on their own, as Kyousuke desires, as it is a test to see if the bonds everyone has formed can last through hardship–and they can not. In tandem to this we see Masato and Kyousuke act to their weakness. Masato is governed by his stubbornness and pride and Kyousuke to his manipulation and desire for control. These aren’t heel turns, but–like with Rin and Riki–an expression of weakness. Rin 2 is the failure that must be redeemed in refrain. Just as we have been taught the character’s strengths, it’s their weaknesses that come to light here–their inability and immaturity.

While the arc is well constructed and hits potent emotional highs, it is well laden with problems of its own though. These mostly stem, ironically, from Rin herself. Rin’s relationship with Riki seems paper thin. While the story in general doesn’t have the strongest overall romance, the existence of Kurugaya, Mio, and others set a precedent of quality that isn’t met through the narrative told here. That is, in some respects, the point, as Riki and Rin are not made out to truly understand or have the capacity for romantic interaction, that said there is a base level of investment that is necessary for Rin’s importance in the plot that I was not able to feel. This is made up for by the emotional strength of Masato, Kengo, and Kyousuke, but is still a flaw nonetheless. On the topic of the secondary cast, the heroines large narrative absence doesn’t do it any favors either. it’s counterbalanced by the larger role that the boys take, but at the end of the day feels inconclusive and more like a loose end in this portion of the story that is about tying those ends together for the final arc. The final thing that didn’t sit well with me as Rin’s overwhelming lack of agency as a character in this story that is ostensibly about her future. Once again, this is on some level the point as Rin’s character flaw at this point is her lack of will, but her outright exclusion from the conversation in the story’s later half still felt out of place.

A rather weak romance is woven between an outstanding tale of tested friendship and ends on a perfect note to lead into the story’s last leg. While it may not be the best arc in the game, it is certainly a quality one.

Stay golden,
Bread

1 Like
#91

A lot of the weaknesses you mention here are pretty common complaints about Rin’s route, as evidenced by the numerous comments on this thread. Honestly, I can’t say that any of them are wrong. Rin’s agency, as you put it, is practically non-existent in this route, despite it being, by all means, her route.

But I think more perspective needs to be put in to the grander scheme of things. Truly, this route does not stand on its own and is only a precursor of things to come. If anything, I would personally like to think of Episode: Rin as the true “Character Route” for Rin, and this being pre-Refrain more than anything.

Perhaps this is Maeda’s way of deconstructing the whole “dating sim” style of visual novels. After all, what point is there in dating a character who isn’t even mature enough to stand on her own two feet? When it comes to relationships, having one party totally dependent on the other is just asking for trouble. Both need to be able to stand on their own and independently support each other. Perhaps, this is just another message that this route wanted to convey.

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#92

(T.T)

I haven’t gone through Refrain yet so forgive me if I miss anything that might seem obvious to those who did. Same goes for whether I’ve misinterpreted anything, seeing as I went through this just last night and couldn’t get enough sleep because of it.

My biggest beef by far was honestly with Kyousuke, and I mean that not as a complaint towards the writing in any way at all, but as a complaint towards him and him alone. Yeah, he’s set up as a like-it-or-not-I’m-right antagonist, with the whole route feeling like a boss fight against him, and yeah, he’s indeed supposed to be right - why wouldn’t he be? Rin needs to grow. She’s an integral part of the group, the same way Riki is, but while I don’t think such groups ever need to outright come to an end, they will change as life goes on. All friendships do, whether 1-on-1 or group ones, even lifelong ones. It doesn’t mean the group has to end, not in the slightest. That change cannot occur if people are unwilling to move on, to grow and be able to deal with life’s curveballs on your own. Rin and Riki fit that description, and we know that from a very early point.

But therein lies my problem. Kyousuke knows that, but he goes too far. All throughout, he gives off this ominous, unshakable feeling of being a dark God of sorts (is he one? as I haven’t gone through Refrain yet, I don’t yet know), unsurprising given that he’s the leader and effective guardian of the group, the one who makes everything possible. He knows the secret of the world and Riki doesn’t. I don’t think he’s changed as a person from the other routes at all - it’s just that, with the focus being on Riki and Rin, this fateful clash was naturally going to happen. But while Riki’s primary standout point is his empathy, he’s got something else going for him: determination, which he eclipses Kyousuke in. But that’s not the worst part - it’s the fact that he tries to use abandonment as a tactic to help his sister mature, but seemingly fails to account for the possibility of her not being able to take it. Between that and still giving her a bit of a lifeline by letting her contact Riki (and Komari, but without her phone working she’s effectively out of the picture), I want to blame him for polar opposite things - being too extreme, yet also not going far enough. And that, to me, is his weakness, as is his failure to account for the fact that there would be repercussions from Rin and Riki for his decisions, and that Riki in particular would overpower him in that regard.

I wouldn’t be so harsh on him normally - after all, he’s merely a year older, right? He himself is still young. Barring anything that I don’t yet know about, I can’t expect him to be omnipotent. He can make a lot of things possible, and even without knowing anything about Refrain I get the feeling that everything’s been orchestrated in a way that makes him indeed seem like more than just a person, but above else he’s still merely the leader and guardian of the group. And any leader can completely lose control in the right circumstances.

…but I know what that abandonment feels like. I imposed it on myself a few years back. It’s… dark. To this day, I see those years as being the absolute worst of my life, years that have worsened me as a person even though they were supposed to make me better and stronger, because I was not ready for that sort of abandonment at all. What I ultimately learned from that was not how to truly live a wholly independent and fulfilling life, but rather that there is nothing to learn from giving someone an overly difficult challenge - even if they get past it, it’ll never feel like it was because of their own efforts, and they’ll only feel resentment towards whoever gave them the challenge in the first place (perhaps even life itself) instead of being proud of themselves for being able to triumph in difficult circumstances through what they’ve learned.

Rin strongly reminds me of that. Yes, she needs to grow, but Kyousuke effectively thrust her into the fire head-first and told her “good luck! oh, here’s a fan in case you need it”, which makes no sense to me when Rin solved Lennon’s previous assignments not on her own, but with the others, whether it was the entire group in the cafeteria scene, or just with Riki in the lovesickness one. She never was truly alone, and it feels like Kyousuke failed to fully realize that. And his response to being called out on that by Riki, who quite rightly could no longer tolerate Rin literally crying over it? Cheating in the 2v2 game, as if to say “no, you have the determination, but I am right because I am right”. No, Kyousuke, you’re not wrong. You’re just a failure of a guardian - a bad parent of sorts. And as great of a person as he might be, that single mistake he made makes him despicable, because unlike with Riki and Rin, I expected better of him, and I even strongly feel like the narrative supports this by indirectly making you want to have this feeling in the back of your head. That’s why, even knowing that he was making a mistake, I sided with Riki on this all throughout. When fairness is thrown out the window, it’s hard not to want to take action. Rin really did feel like she was completely abandoned, and I blame Kyousuke for it, not her or Riki for lashing out at it. Riki merely gambled and lost. Kyousuke’s failure was calculated, and I find that unforgivable.

There’s a lot more that I want to say about the route, from the “”“romance”"" (it’s not and it doesn’t pretend to be - it’s two young best friends wanting to do something that seems mature just 'cause, and I’ve seen that a lot in kids over the years) to Kengo being on Riki’s side (don’t tell me whether I’m right or wrong (spoiler just in case), but the grave visit is going to come into play, right? the 2v2 setup feels a lot like Kyousuke and Masato have developed a certain something that Riki and Kengo have not, and I feel that Kengo will find his answer once we revisit his graveyard visit) and Riki still not knowing the secret of the world. I want to give those a bit more thought first before I dive into them though, especially considering that final scene and the ending. I may even need to go through Rin2 again after Refrain. So far, however, it’s unexpectedly my favorite route. It’s an inescapable bad ending that leads into the true meat of the game. You don’t see that very often in writing in general, and its execution and the way it makes me think and feel about the events in it makes it eclipse any of the “completed” routes of the other girls in my eyes, even the emotional powerhouse that is Haruka’s route. Hell, I should probably write about that one in its relevant thread at some point too…

(One final big shoutout to 何も起こらなかった世界. Jesus Christ, that tune will never stop scaring me now.)

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#93

That is often lost in how the story is addressed by fans. Rin2 has much more in common with Summer/Moon/Alka than any given heroine route.

Though contrary to its ilk, which are among the most interesting parts of their respective works, I’ve never had an ounce of motivation to re-read Rin2. It has its purpose in the narrative, but that purpose can be fulfilled with a superficial reading; at least in these 4+something years, I’ve yet to find anything that convinced me it deserves a closer reading.

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#94

Masato, weakness? No. Masato is the strongest. While everyone else is going crazy, Masato keeps doing what he always does.

Or, as I expressed it in my rant,

Masato may have been on Kyousuke’s team, but he’s never left Riki’s side. He’s never left anyone’s side. He didn’t like what Kyousuke was doing and he made that clear. He didn’t support the infighting. Nor did he change the way he treats anyone. He still challenges Kengo, he’s still Riki’s bro, leaving the room to give him and Rin some much-needed space. Masato is the one consistency in this route - apart from Riki’s trademark dedication. And consistency is reliable when the world around you is going crazy.

With Refrain knowledge, Masato’s behavior becomes even more understandable,
which I have briefly explained in Masato’s character topic (warning, spoilers).

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#95

The first time I read Rin2 I only considered it as something necessary, it was used to link Refrain and the main game after all. I thought that the ending was disappointing and that it was not really the Rin route that I expected to get after reading everything else… I mean, if you expected the RinxRiki to be slightly developed you just got a second “bad” ending. That sensation was reinforced after reading Refrain.

But when I replayed this route last year I changed my mind. The first time I played her route I really couldn’t relate to how Rin felt, I mean, it is not that I’m emotionless or anything like that, I just considered her attitude childish. I had just broke up a long distance relationship, and I was a bit pissed off when I saw LB’s take on the subject.

Buuuuuut then I studied abroad, and it turns out that the first month I was really homesick. I always thought that my friends were there for me, I really loved them. The first time I came back to my hometown I could see how everyone had changed, they did not even hang out together anymore.

So, when I replayed her route and reread all those texts that Rin sent Riki it really changed the way I view her. You could see how their group was falling apart. All that stuff that I considered cheesy suddenly hit close to home, and that really changed how I saw this route.

I think that it does not make it a good route for everyone, it is a pretty stupid reason to like a route after all hahahaha. I think that having to play it just before Refrain is a disservice, you may even try to read Rin2 as fast as you can to get to the Feelz.

I also think that the way the anime changed her route was pretty interesting, including some extra songs like Hanabi if I remember correctly and cutting a chunk of the route. (Also, I always thought that Rin felt like a different character in the anime adaptation to be honest).

To sum up I think that it is a route that serves it’s purpose in the narrative and that felt more ordinary than the other routes, which may be a turn off for some people.

#96

I feel like I wanna share my thoughts about Rin.

At first I never really cared about Rin that much, I always see her as someone who is just there, standing beside Riki and being in every single episode in the anime without much of a purpose aside for the fact that she’s the ‘main girl’, probably almost like Nagisa in Clannad anime. As for my first read in VN, she’s still not really appealing to me. I don’t find any of her traits endearing, and I ended up disliking her because of that particular scene in Rin2, that key moment, and the first time I wanna slap her face is during that police raid scene where she just starts calling her cats’ names and bite Riki’s hand. I personally blamed her for what happened. But, she redeemed herself in Refrain, both in the anime especially in the VN. That’s my initial thoughts on her.

Now for my re-read of the VN. I must say I like Rin a bit more now than before. While she’s not my favorite LB! character, I was able to appreciate her more now. For one is how she’s different from the start of the VN until after Rin1. She changes from someone who’s hiding at Riki’s back or running away etc. when someone approaches her, to someone who opens up when others approach her, it’s still a bit awkward but hey, it’s a progress. She develops more common sense now than the first play through. Rin has her own ways of doing things, while she’s still dependent with Riki most of the time, she’s still trying her best to solve things in her own way. I guess for example, the ‘solving the lovesickness’ task. She also values her friends and gaining strength from them and that’s more evident in Refrain. She also tries her best to cheer-up and support Riki especially during the heroine routes most of the time. The most memorable for me was probably during Mio’s route. She has a ‘different’ way of helping Riki, but I personally think those details are pretty neat. She’s a side character for the most part, but those minimal actions that she does, I personally appreciate that.

But every character development she gains throughout the story, crumbles down half of the Rin2 due to Kyousuke’s schemes. Then, Rin became…practically ‘useless’ for the rest of the route. She becomes a ‘child’, like she’s back from square one. I can’t completely blame her, after all it’s practically Kyousuke’s fault for pushing Rin in a situation that he thought that she could handle on her own, but she can’t and wouldn’t be able to handle that.

After when Riki and Rin escapes, Riki was practically working so hard for Rin’s sake while Rin doesn’t do anything other than adding more mouths to feed. I can see the hate for Rin for how she’s useless and burden to Riki and at one point, I really felt almost the same thing, but at the same time it was partly Riki’s fault too for being…I dunno ‘arrogant’ that he can make Rin happy on his own. Practically spoiling her and don’t want to make her suffer more. If Riki at least you know, try to make her work, convince her or something like that, I am sure she’s willing to help Riki out, at least that’s why I think. I mean, yeah, Rin could take an initiative and help Riki, but in her childish state, I personally think she would never thought of that. Or maybe there’s a possibility she will thought of that, but her mind was filled with cats unfortunately.

Speaking of cats, I did said that I dislike her for what she did during that police raid. But taking things into consideration, I think there’s more to that. I don’t know if someone already pointed this out before, so I apologize if I am just repeating things here, but I think that she sees her cats more than just a pet, it’s her friends/family. I am pretty sure that’s obvious, but I just want to say it. She has the Busters yes, but her cats are the only thing where she’s more comfortable and can be herself that she usually doesn’t show to other people, she’s even denying to Riki that she’s actually playing with the cats. She even learns new pitching techniques when we hurt her cats with a baseball, and of course, her scene with Miles the cat. It really does show how much she loves her feline friends, it’s more than just ordinary pets. So the reason why she’s adopting cats and oblivious for the fact that she’s burdening Riki is because Rin ‘lost’ her friends, her ‘safe haven’. Not just those cats she left from the school, but the Little Busters as well. I can’t properly explain it but, maybe those cats are ‘replacement’ for her friends. It’s just her and Riki to begin with, that’s really lonely. She’s in a childish state, so these actions does seem make sense. So that scene with the police raid, she’s probably scared of losing her friends, her safe haven again and that’s why it happens. I’m not defending her actions or anything, it’s still so wrong in many ways, but I was able to understand the reasoning behind it to some extent and my urge to slap Rin in the face was gone. Overall, she loves cats more than Riki.

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#97

but at the same time it was partly Riki’s fault too for being…I dunno ‘arrogant’ that he can make Rin happy on his own

I wouldn’t quite call it that. He simply couldn’t take it anymore. You’d probably struggle too if your best friend was thrown into the proverbial fire by someone you both deeply trust (Kyousuke in this case). You’d definitely struggle too if your friend outright cried over it. I don’t know about you, but that would drive me into one hell of a frenzy very quickly, and it’s very clear that that’s exactly what Riki thought too. That (T.T) broke him. And seeing her in that horrendous state after her return destroyed him.

It’s a pretty strong argument against one of the main ideas pushed by Mio’s route (good intentions etc etc) - you can have good intentions all you want, but if this is the end result then you’re still a monster. Kyousuke outright acknowledges that in Refrain, after all. He’s still desperately willing to push on for their sake, but he’s clearly deeply hurt by having put them in such a position. He didn’t just break Rin’s mind through his actions, after all - he outright destroyed the group. Kengo’s right to resent him for it even if he was right in the end.

It was a gamble. A thoughtless, emotionally driven gamble. He knew he wasn’t strong enough on his own, but he thought he could manage anyway because he couldn’t take it anymore. She was in no state to try and really contribute much after they ran away (she seemed willing to compromise, but she didn’t know how because she really was just like a helpless child), and I’m sure that, in Riki’s mind, doing what you said he should’ve done would’ve been the same as betraying her.

but I think that she sees her cats more than just a pet, it’s her friends/family

I thought Refrain made it pretty clear, at least the way I saw it. Loneliness was one of her primordial fears. I knew for sure she would scream everyone’s names the exact same way once she started recounting her experiences with them in the buildup to her breaking down on the rooftop. That one traumatic event from her past didn’t help matters either and I see it as the reason she didn’t really properly process the time spent with those around her until close to the end.

So that scene with the police raid, she’s probably scared of losing her friends, her safe haven again and that’s why it happens.

I thought it was even more than that. Rin letting go of Riki mirrored Riki letting go of Kyousuke during the Lennon scene, and the police coming in mirrored that aforementioned traumatic event from her past. Darkness? Being held down?

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#98

After we go through 5 other routes full of sweetness and love, Rin2 betrays the reader’s expectations. Not only is there no real romance, the heroine is shown to be incapable of it in the first place. It has been said that part of the problem was that Riki and Rin never have properly defined their relationship.

I’ll use a Key Point on this, so let’s try discussing it.

What exactly is Riki and Rin’s relationship throughout the different phases of Rin2 And how mature does a person need to be to feel romantic love?

We know their relationship is asynchronous. Riki is the narrator, so we know how he feels, but what about Rin’s side? It’s not like Rin’s understanding of men-women relationships is zero. She did try to make Riki jealous by saying she could become friends with “some cool guy” at the sister school. She did blush when they talked about love when they were still a “couple”. And even after “breaking up”, there was some two-sided sexual tension - like the bathing scene and when Rin refused to let Riki wash her panties.
Now, doesn’t this feel just a little bit strange? It might sound crazy, but if we only had this information to go with, wouldn’t it seem like Rin is actually acting her age, but Riki simply is not “the one” for her?

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#99

I really didn’t get that impression from her in the absolute slightest. I personally chalked all those things you cited down to the conflict between her inexperience and her knowing in the back of her mind (with very heavy prompting from Kyousuke, which I think is a very big factor) that she should be thinking about this stuff, even back when I was going through Rin1 (let alone Rin2). It’s just another one of those things that makes up her childish innocence, a critical character trait for the story. Riki may have been more experienced, but not by much, and I don’t think I can fault him (or Rin) for faltering when faced with Kyousuke’s deeply unfair challenge of trying to make them both stronger.

There’s always going to be some awkwardness when people start talking about you and your best friend getting romantically involved, especially if you’re not experienced enough to fully know what it entails. I’ve been in that position before and so have a fair few of my friends, classmates and colleagues in the past. From their interactions in the common route and the other routes, I’d say it’s pretty clear that they are meant for one another, even without Kyousuke’s intervention. He just pined for it at a much more rapid rate and with factors they didn’t truly understand yet because he wanted to use it to test their strength, counting on Riki being just strong enough to be able to hold on while still being there for Rin. And while we ultimately find out why in Refrain, I don’t think that in itself matters much here. When I went through Rin2, it genuinely felt like he just felt such a strong attachment to both of them as critical members of the Little Busters and lifelong friends that he, as the leader, felt compelled to bring them together and forge them in the furnace of life to make them as strong as possible. I had an inkling it may go beyond that, but I thought his intentions were still understandable enough at the time even without accounting for any supernatural elements.

There are many small touches (sometimes literal, especially when they’re holding hands) that highlight their extreme familiarity and synergy, and it shows the most in how much more careful she is with Riki. With the others, including Kyousuke, she mostly joins in on their banter and often creates it herself. With him, however, she’s more supporting than anything else. Rarely demanding, always apologetic, always there for him even when, frankly, she’s the one who needed support more than anyone else. Komari’s the only one who even remotely comes close to Riki for her, but even then it’s pretty clear that she’s primarily a good confidant and BFF. There’s still a barrier between them - the discomfort she gets from being around other people, a discomfort she desperately struggles with in the closing stages of Refrain as the realization of how much they and the time they’ve spent together mean to her slowly begins to overpower it. With Riki, it’s like she sees him as a kitten, something that she outright says out loud in the romantic end in Refrain. And given how much more comfortable she feels around her cats, that’s very high praise for him. To me, that total lack of barriers transcends the kind of mature love one thinks of when romance is implied, regardless of how much experience either of them may have. People like that are truly one of a kind.

To answer your questions more concisely:

What exactly is Riki and Rin’s relationship throughout the different phases of Rin2?

I see it as deep lifelong friendship all throughout. The kind that easily has the potential to transcend a regular romantic relationship, but also the kind that will naturally see some strain early on when each side’s inexperience and lack of understanding of what is best for either (or both) of them rears its ugly head, especially when too much external pressure (in the form of Kyousuke) is also applied. It’s not romantic yet.

And how mature does a person need to be to feel romantic love?

Enough to understand when to hold on to someone and when to let go, and especially for the right reasons. Normally I’d put that around the age of 25 (20 is the bare minimum, but then you run the risk of conflating love with lust), but it can blossom much sooner if it matures naturally and organically from a strong friendship where both sides feel more at ease with one another than with anyone else in their lives. To say that that last bit applies to Rin and Riki would be a colossal understatement.

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#100

LB! Perfect Visual Book does say the game had an over 3 years long development time. Though in Hanabi the roles are different. The narrator is the weak party that gets swept away, but also resolves to be stronger at the end when the other person(gender not specified) becomes broken and depressed. It’s like the same pieces in a different arrangement, but early drafts of LB! were quite different too.
(Also, can I just point out that Hanabi insinuates someone severely injured a cat by pelting it with rocks.)

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#101

(Also, can I just point out that Hanabi insinuates someone severely injured a cat by pelting it with rocks.)

I’m actually surprised that nothing of the sort made it into the final game. I really expected someone to do something nasty with cats after that one reveal from Komari’s route. I’m not at all saying I would’ve wanted something like that, but I was expecting it, especially given Rin’s role as the heroine and all.

#102

This disscussion make me remember when rin kisses riki in vn only

#103

Honestly Rin 2 was weird, as there really isnt any romance which is unexpected, allthough its Rin so it kinda makes sense. But her being the Heroine that Key chose to represent Litle Busters kinda is strange. I can’t really write that much about her because what is there to write about other than a few character changes being that instead of constantly following riki’s back, she starts making friends with people like Komari-chan for example. Other than that Rin can be summarised as kidnapping Cats and calling them names. The route kinda felt like a final boss fight against kyousuke but the final boss not actually being that smart once Rin and Riki run away, I liked kyousuke, this route made me like him much less and before you say that will be redeemed I have read Refrain already. I don’t understand why he is the number 1 rated Key character. He is kinda just a bad Jin from World Trigger (if your a kyousuke fan watch or read ‘world trigger’, the animation isnt the best so maybe read the manga). Either way I dont really feel that Rins route nor really her character at times is good.

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