Little Busters! - Refrain Arc Discussion

I’m also going to disagree with Takafumi here on the sole basis that it’s based off an abnormal amount of assumption of ill will. There’s no actual concrete evidence that Kyousuke had meant to traumatise Rin the way she was (both in terms of her transfer and the incident that happened at their grandfather’s home) as much as there is evidence that he knew how to take advantage of it to give her the last push she needs.

Because, yes, he’d take advantage of it. In Takafumi’s reasoning I find there to be a drastic lack of understanding that Kyousuke will do anything and paint himself any image as long as his sister and Riki can make it out of there safely. That’s the reason he’s never lingered on the Rin2 fuck-up; Rin surpassed her trauma and grew stronger because of it, so there’s no reason to “regret” it if the alternative was her staying the way she’d always been and confront herself to grief she couldn’t overcome.

There was nothing in Rin2 that went any particularly according to plan for any of the Busters and none of them liked the current state of things, and having Rin being so inherently destroyed the way she was in Refrain was certainly not part of the plan either considering the world was at the end of its capacity and if Riki had not grown enough to try and protect the Little Busters, then their entire efforts would’ve been in vain.

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I know that this isn’t necessarily a Natsume Kyousuke character discussion but there are a number of matters concerning the character that I would like to touch upon. First, before touching upon the refrain Kyousuke, I find it necessary to step back and understand where he comes from in Rin2. Kyousuke in Rin2 is a trap for the audience, or rather I would call him a test. He is a test to see if Riki and Rin are strong enough for his gamble as well as a test for the audience. Rather than the goal being to make you hate Kyousuke, RIn2 is a test to see if you’ve learned the lessons of the other heroine arcs. Namely that there are no bad people in this world (Kud, Mio, and Haruka). The game gave you the tools you need so that by Rin2 you can realize that you are in fact not supposed to hate Kyousuke.

That being said, what is it that Kyousuke wants? Kyosuke wants Rin and Riki to mature and to become independent, that they may face the coming hardship in stride. Rin2 was a failure. Kyousuke intended for Rin to go to the sister school and help them, he intended for Riki to deal with the pain and welcome her home in open arms and for them to be a happy couple. And then he would end it. But that isn’t what happened. In refrain Kyousuke laments how his haste had resulted in Rin becoming traumatized and the group dynamic falling apart. These conclusions are not drawn from Riki’s POV but rather Kyousuke’s himself. He not only openly admits to everything being his own fault in refrain when probed about the sorry state of Rin, but laments the repeating structure saying how the answeres do not exist in “this” world.

Kyousuke is a simple character. He loves Rin and Riki more than anything. The depth of his love might be stronger than anyone else’s in the story. While the man tries to test the two, he would never wish for the mental destruction of his own sister. In refrain Kyousuke has lost confidence that his plan, which has been in effect since the beginning of the world, was correct. But that being said he doesn’t just give up. He still risks his life in the real world, exhausting himself in the wish world, so that Riki can have a chance to undo his mistakes. Yes, to the end, he believes in Riki. That’s why Lennon shows him the ball, or why Masato is regressed, or why he pushes Riki on how to beat Kengo.

Kyousuke is an intelligent indivisual, but the entire premise of refrain is that Kyousuke failed. He tried for too much too fast and lost the bet because of that.

And for further clarification, let me quote the man:

“Since when have the gears been getting out of order? Was I wrong about my plan? No, I suppose from the begging there was nothing I could change. The two of them will stay weak forever…”

Kyousuke had a plan and it failed because at that time Riki and Rin were to weak. Kyousuke is a strong presence, but he is once that loves his friends more than anything and would never wish for lasting despair. Like Masato and Kengo, all he ever treasured was that friendship.

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I’m just mentioning stuff that was said in Refrain though. For the one bit that I wasn’t 100% sure on, I specified “I’m not entirely sure…” but that’s arguably the least important part. There’s no assuming here.

Funnily enough, though I say it’s the least important part, it’s the only part people are talking about… So here’s some clarification.

I never said there was. In fact I specified that I have no evidence to show so, only to show that he regrets causing it. I said the events of Rin2 were perfect, and they were in the grand scheme of things. I only spoke of things I knew were true, which is antithesis of assumption.
Here look, this is what assumption would look like:
The resulting trauma may have been unsought and unexpected on Kyousuke’s part, I’m not sure.
I find it unlilkely, since the following plan and the final step of the Visual Novel is based around Rin regressing to her childhood self, but it basically comes down to whether you think Kyousuke can improvise that quickly or not. I don’t think he can, especially with the broken image of a loved one in front of him, so I imagine it’s all part of the plan. I also question why Rin would regress. One would assume that requires a specific trigger, but Kyousuke is the guy in charge, so surely that trigger wouldn’t show up…

That’s assumption; unproven nonsense full of “I think” and “I find” unlike all the other stuff I’ve written. If I was assuming, I’d make sure not to speak with objective dialogue.

Which is exactly the point I made.

No no, that’s the entire point.

Kyousuke is doing everything in the hopes that Riki and Rin will survive once they’re gone. There’s an entire segment of monologue that I’ve mentioned in two different posts (via the quoted "sin) that explicitly explains this, from the perspective of Kyousuke.

But he does linger on it and he does regret it… He continues forward, and he continues to manipulate people, because that’s the entire point. It’s a Penguindrum-style conflict of morals where the negative actions of the past directly create the positive actions of the future, leading to a “if it’s for them, it’s fine” mindset. And so many times in the VN he shows up just to say “don’t think about it, just continue forward.” This is the great planning that leads to our happy ending, but earlier in the VN Kyousuke literally says about the exact ending we see, that if such a thing were true, there’d be no meaning. Y’know what, let’s slap down some quotes this time…

I picture something while moving…
Maybe it’s because all I keep seeing is the same scenery…
I picture the two of them struggling to overcome this despair.
Riki, whose mind runs well in every situation…
First he calms himself down amidst this horrible scene…
And he collects branches and makes a stretcher…
Rin is by his side.
She searches the other passengers’ bags for useful items and uses them to treat the injured ones…
It really is just a dream.
I merely imagine it to give myself courage.
If they actually did that, everything would be without meaning.
The meaning of me crawling…
My sins in trampling down many things underfoot…
They will all be for naught…
Never make it so… Riki.

And this is something you see every now and then from Kyousuke. Whenever his actions are questioned, his response is either complete silence or a question of purpose, both serving the presentation of the same “I will continue no matter what” message.

{Riki}“I’m sure even you… have never seen her crying…”
{Kyousuke}"…I haven’t."
{Kyousuke}"…She never cried."
{Kyousuke}“But that’s because she’s always been under my care.”
{Riki}“Then help her one more time…”
{Kyousuke}“Then there would be no meaning.”
{Riki}“No meaning…”
{Riki}“What’s the point in doing it in such a forceful way!”

Heck, since I’m actually specifying scenes now, that scene with the CG of the busters helping Kyousuke stand up is all about Kyousuke asking if his actions were okay now that Riki has grown.

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But a lot of your posts on this topic are oriented towards the fact that Kyousuke is cruel for doing what he does the way he does, and for the most part that really isn’t it.

The problem is that there’s a difference between willingly turning things your way and taking advantage of the only positive aspects of a shit situation and what Kyousuke does as a whole is the latter. If he could have done without harming Rin the way he did, and let’s be honest, it was closer to Riki’s fault for failing to protect her than it was Kyousuke’s considering what traumatised her was namely the end-route of Rin2 which he didn’t have a direct hand in like her sister school transfer, he would’ve never done it.

Yes, in Refrain he used the outcome of Rin2 to his advantage, but that wasn’t because Rin2 had been “perfect” for the grow-up plan, it was solely because it was one of his, if not the, last chance for him to execute his plan and ensure Riki and Rin can get out of the accident scene.

When you don’t have any choice anymore because all of the supporting pillars of the world are starting to collapse, I don’t think you can afford to be picky on a literal life-or-death matter, and that makes him determined more than cruel since none of what he’d done was ever with the intention of forcing them to grow “no matter what”.

Mistakes like that aren’t cruelty, because Kyousuke’s entire plan prior to Rin2 was based on making sure to nurture the both of them within their childhood environment: surrounded by their friends and while having fun at all times because there was no purpose in doing otherwise (a reasoning he openly explained in Episode: Kyousuke). Up until that point, all he had done was within a nurturing environment that would make sure to never cause any lasting harm as they worked their way through the final loops of the world, and you’re basing your view of him on a sincere fuck-up he had no choice but to take advantage of its result of because he was actively dying at that time and if he hadn’t, Rin and Riki would’ve too.

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“Since when have the gears been getting out of order? Was I wrong about my plan? No, I suppose from the begging there was nothing I could change. The two of them will stay weak forever…"

Kyousuke has doubt because his plan failed and now he must suffer from his lack of judgement, or rather his over assumption and confidence.

“I believe that… you can achieve what I couldn’t… Riki.”

What couldn’t Kyousuke achieve? Maturing Rin and supporting her,. He couldn’t achieve that, in other words–he failed.

“My sins in trampling down many things underfoot… they will all be for naught… never make it so… Riki.”

What is a sin? A wrongdoing, something to regret. Kyousuke laments his failures but trusts that Riki will ultimately make things right. He has hope that Riki can rectify his failure and make it so that even so Rin can find happiness.

“Even I failed… you’re amazing Riki… You’ve already overtaken me…”

Kyousuke was not trying to break Rin, he failed. The genius of Kyousuke’s character and the source of his charisma is that he is not perfect. As he says many times in episode Kyousuke, he failed in his original plan, well conceived as it was. There is no truth in this world suggesting that Kyouske intended to hurt Rin. Quite the contrary it is something that eats at him and that he considers a failure on his part. He plays the martyr and allows Riki to resent him in Rin2, to turn that frustration into determination, but at the end of it all he pushed too hard too soon.

Kyousuke makes moves in refrain based on the events of Rin2, but that isn’t because he wanted Rin2 to happen. It’s because Kyousuke, even in his failure, does not want to give up on the happiness of his friends. He keeps fighting even though he clearly messed up, all because he will never give up on Rin and Riki. That’s what makes Kyousuke so endearing, he tries even when he didn’t know the answer, even when he failed he gets up again and again, just like with the bus.

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I don’t think there’s any grounds to argue that his methods aren’t cruel, or that they aren’t right. The guy makes the right choices, and I will defend everything he did in the story, but I don’t morally like the decisions he made. That’s the intent though, even Kyousuke doesn’t like what he does. He acts because he is the leader and he is working towards a realistic future.

Yes, I’ve said that.

Very confusing sentence, so I might misunderstand what you’re trying to say. In regards to it being “closer to Riki’s fault” I’d say that’s very arguable. Kyousuke is in charge of creating and continuing these scenarios, and he should’ve probably included a fail safe in the likely event that Riki fails. I’d pin almost all of it on Kyousuke realistically; you can’t make a plan without thinking about variable factors. This is why I said Kyousuke is so caught up that he forgets people have agency (or for a more positive spin, he believes in Riki too much.) Kyousuke can manipulate so much about the world, and as seen in previous routes he can also manipulate Riki and Rin to a great degree, but he doesn’t have absolute control. The resulting Refrain was his own folly, and his own accomplishment.

Obviously Riki failed too, but you’d think that Kyousuke—having watched Riki fail multiple times—would be hesitant in his trust of Riki. I do however believe that a lack of hesitation was a crucial trait for Kyousuke to have.

But it was perfect. As I’ve said before, Kyousuke’s entire plan falls back on a “if it ends positively, it was all worth it” mindset. In relation to Kyousuke, the plan was perfect. It served the exact purpose he desired. I think there’s some confusion here stemming from emotion… This all isn’t to say Kyousuke believed in the moral implications of his decisions (as he clearly expresses otherwise) but Rin2 was perfect in relativity. Hence my starting statement of “At least if you’re viewing it as a small part of a greater whole” since this entire conversation is based on the perspective of Kyousuke and his “greater goal” thinking.
Kyousuke works on short term pain for long term prosperity, and isn’t that the definition of growth?

As I read your post, I can’t help but feel like you are agreeing with me, but framing it as disagreement because of a misunderstanding. Maybe I haven’t expressed my point perfectly, or maybe you haven’t read it all. Something is missing here.

Don’t have much to say about your post, however the scene you quoted is the scene that explains exactly what I am saying…

Only I believed in my own plan…
Enforced it without asking anybody else’s opinion…
Drove Rin into a corner…
Made her dig up her personal trauma…
――and drove her to despair.
Everything will be repeated.
Over and over.
The same morning begins yet again.
But Rin’s mind remains broken.
Will everybody despise me?
Will they accuse me of being in the wrong?
I did something horrible to Rin.
‘We should have just kept playing around and having fun.’
Will they accuse me with those words?
Very well… I’ll take it all.
Yet…
I’m going to keep on fighting.
Even if it’s me alone, I’m going to keep on fighting.
The two of them will definitely survive.
As long as they are strong.
I’m going to save them.
I’m going to do anything I can for that.
Even if it means breaking the rules.
Even if it means abandoning morality.
Whatever it takes, I’m going to save those two.
I’m definitely going to do it.

Friend, you are correct in your assertion that Kyousuke definitely believes that “the ends justify the means,” however you seem to have some notable misconceptions about where ideas originated versus how they were adapted as the story progressed. It is true to say that Kyousuke is and was always willing to do morally questionable things in service of his plan to raise Riki and Rin in the stopped world, however Kyousuke wanted Rin2 to be the end of it. He wanted Rin2 to be the last world in which Rin and Riki wake up. The fact that Rin2 wasn’t the ending is the failure that the other posters have been saying occurred. Like I said previously, Kyousuke from that point doesn’t just give up and works within the confines of his failure. But that doesn’t change the fact that he did, in fact, fail, as the man says countless times himself. You seem to understand his psychology on a basic level, but your chronology with regard to how he implements his ideas is twisted. Kyousuke failed only in that Rin2 was supposed to be the end. He failed because the refrain world even exists at all.

Other than that I don’t think you have many major misconceptions. Just think of the chronology and suddenly everything makes sense.

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But this entire topic started with:

Something explicitly added to preface the discussion, to focus in on a perspective of the overall story. That’s why this is in the Refrain Arc discussion and not the Rin2 discussion, and that’s why I ended the initial post with:

Because I’m talking about Rin2 as a means to an end, not as an isolated instance. If we were to end the VN on Rin2 then it’d be a failure, but we didn’t. We ended with Refrain, and in Refrain the events of Rin2 were the catalyst that brought upon a perfect ending. As a tool to bring success, Rin2 was masterful.

Yes my guy, Rin2 is of course what prefaced the ending. But it can’t be called a tool for success since no one wanted Rin2 to end that way. A tool is only a tool if it is being used as a tool to acomplish a goal. Sure it did lead to the good end, but refrain only happened out of necessity. Therefore, you can not call Rin2 a masterful tool since no one wanted Rin2 to be used the way it was, not Rin, not Riki, and–as we have established–not Kyousuke.

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I believe it was a tool for success, and Kyousuke made use of it very well. People aren’t limited to the tools they feel happy using.
Refrain was a reversion of all the busters so that Riki could bring them all together, and that plan was born through the reversion of Rin. Regardless of whether Rin2 was desirable or not, I can’t devalue how amazing it was as a tool of progression.

Your wording is very specific here, so I’m gonna disagree. Kyousuke did want Rin2 to be used the way it was, because it brought them to the conclusion they were fighting for, and because it would have otherwise been meaningless. Making use of such a result is the most respectful thing you can do.
If however you had said “No one wanted Rin2.” I’d have agreed.

It seems that at the core of this discussion there isn’t actually much of a disagreement, rather this is just a matter of semantics. If the argument is simply “Did Rin2 lead to a situation in which Riki had a fantastic chance to grow,” then it seems we and everyone else here agrees. Kyousuke did want Rin2 to be used how it was once it was over and refrain occurred, naturally. That’s what was intended to be conveyed with the references made previously to Kyosuke’s plan as adaptable.

All anyone was ever questioning was rather the question, “Did Rin2 go the way that was originally planned?” and to that the answer is pretty clearly no. The point of interest there is “once it occurred.” What everyone was saying was simply that Rin2 was not the original desirable outcome–which I don’t think you would disagree with–not that it didn’t ultimately turn out good for growing Riki in refrain.

No one disagrees that it worked out for the best in the end, like I said everyone is just discussing chronology and intent. Rin2 was a useful tool for progression, but it was not part of Kyousuke’s original plan.

Good talk pal, hopefully this semantically conflict is clear at this point.

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I am a firm believer in the notion that a single part of a story is all it takes to both throne and dethrone the entire regent from being cast onto the pedestal of my heart. Refrain, this great mystery that has stared down from Mount Purgatory since I first heard “Kyousuke’s back!” rumbling through my ears, has been reached by my lowly mortal self. This path that I had walked, battered and beaten by those who had come before me, was already beautiful, heartwarming, and inspiring. As clear and refreshing as the Nile runs through Egypt, it flowed and guided me to the beauty that awaited. For this post, I choose not to add screenshots, as I want to type everything out. I ask for your forgiveness now for the length of this post.

The very second I clicked Refrain, I felt a chill in my spine. The static, that ever-mysterious static that laid over the truth like a veil that obscures the elegant and beautiful bride during her wedding day, writhed as though it had sized up my progress. Accepted me through its gates into the cat box that I had theorized about since the very beginning. The truth is always merciless. It does not care about good and evil, it only presents itself, and we often either go mad from the revelation or flee into the safety of a new dark age.

The bus crash! The accursed accident that has been ever so slightly wedged into the trunk of the game, first in the shadows ever since #LitBus was formed, before the game was even released. Here, it shown unabridged, uncensored, in the creeping terror of all that we fear as men. The mentions of field trips from Kud and Rin2 were the drops that spilled over for me; I walked into Refrain with the theory that the other routes were but dreams, brought on by Kyousuke and the others to help Riki and Rin overcome this inevitable tragedy. Like all truths, it and every one beyond was a bitter pill to swallow. I cannot wonder anymore; only accept.

Afterwards, we are tossed into what we believe is the common route yet again, for what I believe is the eighth time. Eight. Eight shooting stars falling from the sky in Komari’s route. The ripples that slowly disappeared from the idle title screen as each route is completed, culminating in only three wandering, lonely souls. Without the bus cg before it, I would have been only slightly skeptical of this beginning. Refrain: to repeat. With it, the most unsettling feelings known to man were thrust upon me. Kyousuke is not back, instead he skitters off into obscurity and Riki is forced to mediate between Kengo and Masato, which ends in failure. It is here, presumably like many others, that I saw the answer. Riki cannot rely on Kyousuke if he is to grow. No, he must take the reins himself, he must march onto the battlefield with the sun in front of him and behind that unknowable, foreboding future that we all face. Kyousuke cannot save you forever, Riki. Take his hand up, not his handout.

Kengo receives an arm fracture from this battle, an odd mirror from when he saves Koshiki in the other routes. Masato is beaten, and the animosity between the pair seems to grow. The cold blanket of uneasiness lay entrenched on the scene, and Riki ponders when they became so divided. What happened, I thought. I had no answers yet. Where was Kyousuke to save them? Perhaps the first truly chilling moment is the next day, when Riki takes Rin to school. Not the sister school where she was supposed to help others, but a school where she was going to be helped.

The first crack in what I believed was my weather but still almighty dam - that precious CG of Rin among the children, her innocent smile radiant in the warm glow of life still untouched by the darkness of the future. To see something so pure, so beautiful, I could not help but force the mist from the eyes from forming. It’s only the beginning, I thought.

“I needed to take on the role that the past Kyousuke had played,” Riki states. In the corridor where we used to see Rin playing with her cats, he picks up a mangy and dirty baseball from the ground… In my mind, the wind started blowing. Cherry blossom petals danced around, and a violin was heard from beyond space and time, signaling the arrival of the first step toward a bright future. One grasped by Riki’s, and by extension, my hands. It is time to reform the Little Busters.

Rin takes a liking to playing catch, reminiscent of the other journeys we went through. Masato and Kengo eventually (though somewhat reluctantly) join, so that Rin may warm up to them for the second time. It is the very definition of beauty in simplicity. Only when Riki picks up a bat and tries to actually form a baseball team, does the illusion shatter. Kengo and Masato promptly leave him, forsaking the idea of the “Little Busters”, and Riki is left alone, even after trying to win back Masato, who instead proclaims his will to become the strongest.

I have said before that the Little Busters are the most relatable cast of characters I have ever encountered in the endless of sea of fiction, and that holds true with Masato as well. I was eight out of ten so far and a bit anxious at how well the story knew me, in whom I was, who I am, and whom I wish to become. Every character was but a hand that cradled my soul. I too was bullied like Masato, and built an identity using my size, living through fear and oddity. To see myself in others is not uncommon to this day. I must compliment the execution of Episode Masato, for being extremely uncomfortable particularly during the introduction of the cafeteria background filled with copies, to being extremely heartwarming with the younger Kyousuke acknowledging Masato’s existence and being accepted for who he is. There exist a few ironic echoes to both Kurugaya’s and Haruka’s routes, where his anger toward bullies goes beyond protecting his friends, and digs deeper into the core of who he has been for so long. A good mystery is always foreshadowed.

Episode Kengo suffers from the same pointless trifling that Haruka’s did: going to Kengo’s house. Neither this journey nor his father are important to the story. What matters, though, is the execution. For the entire game Kengo has been the most mysterious of the Busters behind Kyousuke, and the pieces of his puzzle fell ever so slowly into place, culminating in Rin2 as only one slot is left. His complexity is ultimately and beautifully subverted as he is revealed to be one of the simplest characters. Like Riki in Komari’s bad end, he wishes to protect that which he believes is too weak to defend itself. Kengo foreshadows this in Rin2 when he states his will to protect the Little Busters so they may be eternal. Why does Kyousuke form them only for them to dissolve? Kengo’s sparse interactions with Kyousuke are peppered with little hints and form a sturdy bridge to the next episode, and his animosity toward Kyousuke after his heinous action of showing Koshiki to him during the baseball match of Rin2 is finally understood. All Kengo wanted was to play with his friends, and his breakdown when admitting this hearkens back to my feelings toward seeing Rin’s purity in the beginning.

The cat box is opened. The answers shine in their almost-too-bright light. I can no longer wonder what the secret of the world is, as the winds of change erode the corridor so that only one theory may fit. Kyousuke picks up the baseball just like Riki did and names the future Little Busters baseball team: Haruka, Mio, Kurugaya, Kud, and Komari. They all know. They always knew. This world was created by them and is the controller is held by Kyousuke, and the mission is to help Rin and Riki overcome the tragedy that awaits them in the real world. That’s why he advised against Riki from going after Kurugaya in her route, for he knew she would wrest control from him. That’s why the meteor shower in Komari’s route happened when it shouldn’t have, and that’s why Kud can miraculously break chains. The Key magic has been explained through dream magic.

The final baseball game, where the boys literally part beyond the title of the song, became the second crack as Oda Yuusei’s superb voice acting for Kengo broke through me. It is not easy for anything to end, but what is important are the encounters and experiences we have in life, and what they teach us. Throughout Refrain I longed to see the other heroines, and when I found out Komari was the only one left, I finally had the third strike and broke down. These friends - my friends, were gone.

Kyousuke asks Riki, and by extension, if it’s enough to let them go. No, I say, it is not. No one gets left behind. No longer will I accept something so bittersweet. Kyousuke’s plan worked too well! It is not the upcoming tragedy that Riki must overcome, but the death of his parents. This is the beauty of Little Busters. Their efforts are not wasted, only subverted. “I’ll make myself stronger too,” Rin affirms, taking Riki’s hand as she faces the future. One of, if not my favorite moment of the story, is when she goes back to Komari and assures her she will continue to smile.

I don’t have much to say for the ending, other than its rampant idealism is everything I love in a story. Truly, Riki earns his happy ending, not only by facing the past and the future but by adhering to Kyousuke’s meager advice on what to do during the crash. Refrain rests on the highest note. So, Refrain has turned the tides of Little Busters and has firmly placed it as my favorite story of all time, and I still have yet to even reach the end of this magnificent journey. It combines all that I love from my other favorite stories, and gives it that magic that I have come to love. It surpasses all other stories for me now.

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So I was planning to write this post rather quickly after finishing Refrain. I was also planning to swiftly proceed to the alternate ending for the Kurugaya route. However, I did not anticipate the emotional mess I would be after Refrain. I needed some time, and I still do. But I do want to get around to making a reply here at the very least, Kurugaya and the other routes will be following shortly after.

I don’t even know where to begin. What do I even write… I’m starting to doubt I can make a long coherent post here at this point, so I might try and keep it relatively short. You know, for the longest time I had my doubts Little Busters would affect me the way Clannad did. Back when I watched the Clannad anime adaptation 5 years ago it had made a massive impact on me, and it remains one of my all time favourites. I have since watched other adaptations like Kanon, Angel Beats and Charlotte. While they were a good watch (some more so than others) they didn’t even come close to Clannad for me. So when I first read the Clannad VN I fell in love with the story again (and around that time I joined Kazamatsuri too) and it cemented its place as something truly unforgettable.

Then I got to Little Busters. It took some time for me to warm up to all the characters. But gradually I came appreciate and like them, and I became especially fond of characters like Kyousuke, Masato and Kengo. They’re the best. But at the same time the Little Busters world started to feel really familiar and peaceful to me as well. There was a secret to that world though, and it’s one I didn’t see coming for the longest time… I knew there was something going on undernearth the surface, and I had suspected Kyousuke was the cause of some things, but I never anticipated the scale and the meanings behind it.

When starting Refrain things seemed to be back to the usual, but quickly enough you realize something is wrong. Kyousuke is not his usual self and isn’t around much, Rin can’t come to school and none of the other female characters seem to exist for some reason. I must say that for the longest time I was truly anxious to figure out what was going on. There was this growing worry that something would be going very wrong at some point. Kengo’s mention of a future where there was nothing but darkness didn’t do much to help either. Riki’s struggle to reform the Little Busters managed to kept me invested and at this point I couldn’t stop reading and just wanted to reach the conclusion. I must say that I thought the changes in perspective were great, seeing things through through the eyes of Masato, Kengo, Kyousuke and Rin and getting to know their inner thoughts helped to slowly unveil the mysteries of the world. And it was just a nice experience in general, I enjoyed the storytelling a lot that way.

Anyway, I won’t go into too many details of the route, as other people have done this before me already with better, longer posts that were more thought out. I just want to mention the farewells in the last episode though… I actually already lost it at Masato’s scene. He’s the best roommate Riki could’ve wished for, and such an awesome friend. He was strong in more ways than one, and kept his cool until the end. Then there’s Kengo, the person who always seemed to be calm and collected. The poor guy just wanted to keep playing forever… Seeing him get so emotional got to me really bad too. “The Little Busters are forever” are the last words he says before disappearing. What an amazing guy as well. And then there’s Kyousuke, trying to act cool and simply walk away… But Riki’s words get to him and he turns around with a crying face, exclaiming his wish of wanting to be with Rin and Riki forever. I just… there’s no words. It was completely devastating to see him cry like that. I never saw it coming I’d get this emotional while reading Refrain. One of the saddest and most touching scenes ever. Kyousuke is special and I can’t really voice my appreciation of his character through mere words. Also I’m sorry but if you could look at the crying Kyousuke CG without shedding some tears yourself… we can’t be friends.

Then there’s the ending. There’s only one true ending as far as I’m concerned. Kyousuke, of course it’s not enough. It never will be. I was just so happy to see them reunited, and anything less would just have made me feel depressed. And the credits were absolute perfection. It just… made me feel so many things. Little Busters are forever. Safe to say that at this point in time Little Busters is as special to me as Clannad is, and that’s meaning a lot.

So excuse me while I go cry in a corner again while listening to the “Faraway” track on repeat.

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What makes me so happy is seeing so many people agreeing that “It’s not enough” :umu: Compared to, if you read the first few posts on this topic, a lot of people in the past arguing that the “It’s enough” ending would be better. A lot more people are accepting the ending and, call me biased if you will, I am 100% ok with that~

Little Busters Saikou! Yahoo!!!

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I mean, people tend to want to see what would’ve comprised the “It’s enough” eding because it was one that would’ve validated everything Kyousuke and the others had done up to that point. Like a kind of recognition of the efforts he went through and the results it would’ve brought about if Riki had been his usual self and stopped at where Kyousuke indicated him.

Or at least that’s what fuels my personal curiosity and why I think it’s a shame that there’s no Refrain “bad end” in itself. It’d make the “It’s not enough” branch so much more emotional if you could see what a world without Kyousuke and the others was actually like…

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Screw that noise. We need more Anime in our Visual Novels.

Far as I’m concerned it doesn’t invalidate jack, the internal logic of the story is that Riki can’t wake up until he is strong enough, he just redefined what ‘I’m strong enough’ actually means, even if you get to the end and screw up all the bus scenario decisions he’s still not out of the Dream World, the only possible situation he can have left it is if he himself is able to fulfill his own ‘wish’. Not to survive, but to save every single one of his friends without fail.

And besides, the characters still very much believe they’re going to die. I don’t think we should disregard that just because they will live in the end. Every moment we get to spend with them is their fighting with their last breaths to ensure they have no regrets. The important thing to me is appreciating what they do with the understanding that they have, not focusing on what will change in the future. That’s how I appreciate these characters.

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Screw that noise. We need more Anime in our Visual Novels.

I totally agree with this.
While having a Bad End to Refrain would have been interesting, I think Little Busters is a story that tries to convey an optimistic message at its core: I don’t think a tragic ending would fit the themes explored on previous routes.
This is the objective truth and I’m definitely not saying this just because I would have cried myself to sleep if the canon ending was the bad one.

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As much as I love having alternate endings or ambiguity as to which ending is the ‘real’ one (think Total Recall) I just don’t think Little Busters would benefit from it. This isn’t really a story designed to be endlessly debated over, but one to convey a strong message of friendship. The quote “Anime Bullshit” that goes on in the ending is very much justified as well.

Yessssssssssss <3

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I feel like there’s no real justification to say that choosing “It’s not enough” invalidates what the Little Busters have done up until this point. It was absolutely necessary for the whole process to happen in order for Riki and Rin to save everyone. Imagine the Riki and Rin from the first playthrough trying to save them. Even if you ignore Riki’s narcolepsy, it would never happen. Riki would panic, probably start hyperventilating and just try dragging the injured classmates out of the bus by hand. Assuming he’d be able to save anyone that way, he’d be making their injuries worse. Hell, that might even be the finishing blow for the more heavily injured. As for Rin, she’d just stiffen up like a stone and accomplish absolutely nothing. I can easily imagine them accomplishing nothing beyond getting themselves injured - or even killed - in the explosion.
I just went back and tried choosing all the stupid options, and Riki auto-corrects most of them. The biggest problem would have been Kyousuke’s rescue. Riki would have seen Kyousuke, thought of nothing but rescuing him, pulled him away from the engine and it would’ve been good-bye to the Little Busters.
Actually, the biggest problem comes even before that. Such a great amount of time passing in the dream world was necessary, since it took Kyousuke until - literally - the final iteration to cover the engine in the first place.


Kyousuke and the other Little Busters had been training Riki to be capable of rescuing everyone the whole time. Not to say that this was the goal, but they were trying to make him at least that “strong.” The only problem, as they knew, was Riki’s narcolepsy. Once this problem is solved, as we see, we get proof that everything they did paid off. I would argue that choosing “It’s enough” actually invalidates their efforts more.

It did have meaning, Kyousuke.

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Turns out Kyousuke might actually be a flawed character :aspi:

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