Oh I doubt Kyousuke planned for Rin and Riki to fail during Rin2. But don’t you think he probably wanted Riki and Rin to run away together? After all, thats what he was preparing them for: living on by themselves.
Considering his reaction to Riki and Rin running away in Episode Kyousuke, I feel it’s fairly safe to say it wasn’t part of his plan. He wanted them to stay strong even during this difficult trial and overcome it without running away from it. That also lines up with his ulterior motives of helping them move on even after the bus accident.
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I dont remember the details of that except for his comment that he’d “never seen the gears of this world so messed up”, which in my opinion could go either way. So you may be right.
[quote=“Karifean, post:183, topic:203”]
He wanted them to stay strong even during this difficult trial and overcome it without running away from it. That also lines up with his ulterior motives of helping them move on even after the bus accident.
[/quote]The only thing I have to argue against that is, he wanted Riki and Rin to be able to survive on their own, but he wanted them to be together. I guess I thought:
“He might have separated Rin right after Riki had started “going out” with her, and then acted as if he was the bad guy, to force them to be so distraught that the only option left would be to run away. Of course, running away just the two of them would simulate how they would have to live after they return to The World Where Something Happened.”
Thats not a perfect description, so I hope you understand what Im trying to say ^^;
Basically, Ive never been 100% on this theory; but I think it is a very interesting way to look at it, and actually mostly works.
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Another tiny detail I noticed today while reading the epilogue:
When Rin asks who Riki who he is in love with, it’s pretty clear that Rin has very little concept of limerence, but when I saw these few lines here…
This could very well mean that instead of being romantically-obsessed with Riki, she treats him more like a second brother. Riki, more than likely, mostly feels the same way throughout the entire story. Despite that, Rin definitely wants to be with Riki out of her own free will, which could just be her wanting to understand what it is like to love, using her best friend as a practice dummy, rather than actually being physically attracted to Riki.
It might be for the best that she plays matchmaker instead, though…
Also, kudos to Miocchi for agreeing with me. :3
Pay no attention to the pointless tangent behind the curtain. > <
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Wait… you mean this wasn’t obvious to everyone? I could never understand why everyone always says “Rin’s romance is so terrible”, when it wasnt even romance. They’re practically siblings, and if not that then most certainly the best of friends. Ive always been confused when people say “Rin is the worst pairing for Riki”, when she’s the closest to him of all the girls. It might not be a romantic love, but its still very clearly love, imo.
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Honestly I also suprised at the end of ‘refrain’ when Rin trying to matchmaking Riki with every LB girls members…
In my point of view of a girl, she’s like debating herself :
“Riki I love you…but I think I’m not perfect as LB girls members…I think you’re wrong for choosing me…look! there are plenty good girls more better than me…are you sure…? but I also don’t want you to leave me and chase another girl…”
I think Rin before refrain won’t say anything like that (that matchmaking I mean)—so I feel she’s matured more than before—and she cherish her relationship with riki after that accident happen—
Also…if Rin didn’t have any feeling to Riki…she won’t angry at Kurugaya’s route…when Kyousuke made fun of Riki x Kurugaya for example–she’s angry+jealous and after that we can’t find her anywhere—
I don’t know what happen in the past—her relationship with Riki, but I can see that she’s think Riki is the most special more than Masato, Kengo and Kyousuke…when she get ‘that paper’ from lennon for the first time for example–if she think the 4 members as the same important lenght–I think she will tell it to them and taadaaahhh~ Kyousuke plan failed~
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It’s cute the way you put it~ X)
Now that I think about it, Rin being modest about herself is not something I would expect her to do in the common route. It kind of goes to show that not only has Rin changed over the course of the story, but she might actually be one step closer to having very real feelings for Riki.
Thanks for that, ‘Shipper Extraordinare’. 
Wow that actually makes a lot of sense. Shipper Extraordinaire indeed.
But I still cannot ship Rin and Riki as I feel that more happiness could be gained should Riki end up with other girls (coughkurugayacough)
hahahahahahaha yes-yes-praise me moar~ you can also call me cupid Goddess of love desire, attraction and affection
@Pepe yes! Kurugaya need more love—but I think Riki are too perfect for her~~ Kyousuke is the perfect match for her—BUT I WILL NEVER BETRAY KYOUMARI~~
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Do Kyousuke and Yuiko even get a scene together? o.o
If you count Kyousuke imagining himself being killed by her, yes.
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Nope…but they were partner in crimes…and besides they have same ‘fondness’ toward Riki…
I can imagine if they going date, they will talking about Riki for all days…
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Randomly feeling like rambling about the “It’s not enough” ending for a bit.
In my eyes, the “It’s not enough” ending is a good example of ‘bad concept, great execution’. In a story partly centered around moving on from sad occurrences, having those looming occurrences suddenly not happen after all seems like the silliest idea in the world, undercutting its own message and rendering much of what the main characters learn kinda pointless.
But there’s a reason it never bothered me, at least not since I read the visual novel (I watched the anime first), and that is the absolutely stellar execution of the idea in question.
We get the choice after the ‘fake’ ending which is the actual ending if we decide that it’s enough. Even more than that, it’s right after Riki and Rin promise each other that they will go on as long as they are by each other’s side. That they can and will overcome this tragedy and not lose themselves over it. Put another way, they’ve already gone through all the development and maturing to keep going. That’s when we are given the decision.
The decision isn’t that difficult for us as players, but for Riki and Rin it’s a whole different matter. Going back for another try means risking not only their own lives, but everything Kyousuke and the others worked for. Riki and Rin are willing to bet all this for the chance of a ‘miracle’ where everyone survives. This isn’t something they do because they’re weak. This is a choice they make because they’re strong. Because they - Riki especially - can step up as a leader. It’s not easily achieved either as conveyed by the six choices in succession you have to get right lest Riki gets caught up in the explosion. A lot could have gone wrong, but getting everything right implies that Riki’s choice was correct; he could take responsibility for betting the entire artificial world experience for the possibility a miracle, and bring it about by his own hands.
This is something I felt the anime sorely lacked, by the way. In the anime it feels less like Riki and Rin managed to make good on their bet and save everyone because they “do everything right”, and more because they got lucky. They’re a lot less calm and level-headed, and Riki succumbs to his narcolepsy. In fact you could see this as them risking everything the entire series built up to even though they don’t have the strength to back that sort of bet up. It’s idealistic in the same way as the VN, but it appears a lot more naive. Nowhere near the kind of leaderlike taking of responsibility that even Kyousuke can look up to in the VN.
Also, just in my personal experience, both making the “It’s not enough” choice as well as guiding Riki through the process of saving everyone are some of the most poignant and gripping moments in the game. The writing is phenomenal in how it gets you attached to the situation at hand and want to see it through safely.
There’s also the fact that I appreciate the notion of “A SAD ENDING? NO FUCK YOU. WHY THE HELL SHOULD WE BE SATISFIED WITH THAT? WE’RE ALL GETTING OUT OF THIS ALIVE.” As in not being satisfied with an oh so meaningful outcome, but pursuing the best, the happiest one, instead. I like that a lot.
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Hmm, I would have said that was the most difficult decision in the game for me. As a reader, I wasnt thinking about this in terms of “Have I done enough?”, but more as in “Was I able to overcome what Kyousuke had prepared me for?” In which case the answer was “Yes, Riki just overcame the biggest challenge of his life. And its over now.”
But its interesting, because many people have begun to call the hospital scene “the fake ending”, because it seems as if the question “Was it enough?” is coming from Kyousuke. Kyousuke has “spoken” to Riki like this in the past, so it follows that pattern. But of course, that could not have happened if the hospital scene was real and Kyousuke was actually dead.
But to me, it makes sense as a question that Riki would ask himself while lying in the hospital bed. “All of my friends made all these sacrifices, and Im the only one who made it out alive? Wasnt there anything else I could do…? And in the end, didnt I fail, again, because of my narcolepsy? Did I really do enough?”
Again, to me as a reader, the answer was, probably sympathetic with Kyousuke, “Yes, yes, yes Riki you have done enough. Now you need to live.” Just because the second answer required strength, does not mean that choosing the first is being weak.
But there is a scene later on, in which Riki comes to terms with his narcolepsy, and decides to move on from it. I can imagine that that moment in the hospital is actually when this scene is taking place. His entire life Riki has criticized himself: “I could do more, if only for my narcolepsy.” But here he chooses: “I can do more. In spite of my narcolepsy.”
And thus, “No, it wasn’t enough. Because, I had to be strong to get here, but I believe that I can be even stronger.”
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I have recently just finished playing the final route. I have to say that I have thoroughly enjoyed but I really do love this VN a lot and I like to thank @Yerian for recommending me playing this before watching the anime adaptation. My thoughts through this was that both endings were not bad but I think that the normal ending probably might have sufficed because it showed Riki and Rin could have made it out with each other despite so much that have happened through each branching route points. The true ending is just as memorable as well as fun to look at it as a whole. The ending sequence and the credits was pretty awesome as well. It was really one of my favorite if not one of the most endearing and most wonderful experience of visual novels I have ever played since CLANNAD. Little Busters SAIKOU!
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Regarding the accident, Does anyone remember any mentionings of nearby constructions, particularly a bypass?
I don’t remember anything of the sort. I think, at some point, Kyousuke mentioned that it was no one’s fault.
IIRC, the accident simply happened, just like the one where Riki’s parents died.
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I know this was mentioned by Aspirety in the thread somewhere but regardlessly…
The fact that they all end up living in the end end both surprised and bothered me for a few days and night… It just makes a lot more sense thematically and following up with the overarching theme to deliver the “bombshell” (their death). Wasn’t one of the main theme of Refrain was to move on? For Riki to grow up after having been taught of how to live life as an adult by Kyousuke? It just seemed so weird that they would all survive in the end (lol)… It’s kind of like the magic realism in Kud’s route; Key could have found several different way to convey the feeling that Riki’s friendship and bond with Kud but they decided to keymagic the gear into Kud’s hand (which works since it shows that their bond was so powerful that they could magically modify reality itself… the point is that I felt the same for the ending of Refrain, it seems like something that they didn’t have to do, but decided to anyway, to convey some other point that I haven’t understood yet.
And I remember someone (I think it was Aspirety) saying something about that it was about the point of them learning the value of their bond and growing together as a result of it… but I feel like if that was the case then it wouldn’t have really been necessary (if not, far fetched) for Kyousuke and Kengo to say things like having to leave Riki and Rin behind for them to grow up by themselves, I truly felt like the point of Little Busters! was what Kyousuke tried to accomplished throughout the show: to turn Rin and Riki into independent adults that can live by themselves. Kyousuke and the rest of them knew that they wouldn’t be able to cope with losing them so suddenly, so with their final wish, they would create an alternate world where Kyousuke would be able to raise Riki and Rin into adulthood so that they would be able to cope with their friends’ death, so with that wouldn’t the point of Little Busters be more about growing up and moving on?
Honestly, I don’t know, maybe in contradiction to Key’s previous works that inevitably involved some sort of heart-tearing death in the end, they really decided to stick with the more light hearted and comically nature of Little Busters. I wanted them to die (lol) but at the same time I was really happy that they all survived.
And they went on a field trip (the death-event that caused them to be here in the first place) at the end too, I thought that was the most ironically hilarious thing ever.
EDIT: so I read the thread again and Karifean mentioned that they decided took a different attitude in the end, which would result in having all of them survive the incident and going on continuing being the eternal Little Busters… Honestly, yeah, in that perspective I can definitely see that being one of the possibility, since Little Busters had a really wacky and (for lack of better words) shounen-y attitude to it, so if they decided the ending with the basis of that reasoning, I’d definitely buy into it (lol) so I guess even if it’s keymagic in a sense it does actually make sense and feel better with this context.
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I remember hearing in the podcast about Key in 2017 that Maeda Jun intended to only have the “it’s enough” end but another writer convinced him that that ending would have simply been too sad without another option.
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