Goddammit, Kanon, I wanna hug you right now! I’m not even halfway through the VN, but your post made me feel the refrain feels again!
I can’t wait to reread the whole thing and become a pathetic mess of sad and happy!
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Huh, that’s interesting. Wait, is there even an official main love interest for Riki? I mean, the girls are all over the place.
It’s implied that Kud’s route took place in the real world, at least up to the point when Noumi decided not to go back. I could be wrong though.
I’m sure most people would say it’s Rin, even though she still doesn’t understand the concept of love even at the end of Refrain. Except in the Rin-Refrain ending, which is more of a what-if for me.
One more thing about the second one is that when you fail in the “save everyone chain of elections” you return immediatly to the main menu while when in the first time, where you only can choose to escape to continue, if you choose to try to rescue everyone Kyousuke teel you to not do that, so in the second time Kyousuke can’t even talk with you in that moment (is the real world while the first one try is yet in the other world).
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There seems to be something special with me and VNs, specifically that they seem to hit me way harder than any anime ever has, even the ones where I think I’ve already experienced of what I thought they had to offer. What I’ve read of Clannad so far did this, as has LB!. And while I somehow managed to remember incredibly little about the series as a whole, (which was fucking awesome since it felt incredibly fresh), I don’t remember getting anywhere near as choked up watching the anime as I did throughout Refrain in the VN.
The first thing I want to touch on is the role reversal of Riki and Kyousuke. I think I alluded that this was seemingly likely to happen in my common route posts, but now I think I have to chalk it up to a subconscious, latent memory from the anime rather than some sort of awesome prediction/sleuthing on my part. Overall, this was the route at its best for me. His progression (throughout the whole VN, but most notably here) from a timid, dreary kid to a strong and crafty leader was a joy to watch unfold over time. The CG of Riki holding his hand out to Kyousuke with the other Busters may just be my favorite moment in the entire game. Short, sweet as hell, powerful and meaningful.
The other thing I really appreciated were the Kengo bits. He felt very much in the backseat for majority of the common and character routes, and here we finally got to see much more depth to his character. His inner conflict, which seemed to stem from regret over losing his remaining time with his friends once he realized how much it meant to him. His frustration, anger, and confusion is palpable throughout, and I found it very relatable. Every Buster makes remarks as to how they don’t want the good times to end, but not on the level we see from Kengo here. It took long enough, but I’m glad he finally got his moment in the sun. Additionally, we already knew how impactful meeting Kyousuke was to Riki, but it was cool to see how much it meant to the other original Busters as well.
Quick shout out before getting into the ending, but holy shit did some many of these moments hit me hard. Kengo’s first break down after losing to Riki, the last baseball game, all the goodbyes, and a home run to send them all off. Sad, yet triumphant. Hopeful and optimistic in the face of the unknown. (And it weirdly reminded me of Sandlot’s 4th of July scene, in a good way.)
Alright, time to discuss the Key magic ending stuff. Not sure if I’ve directly confronted it yet here on the forums, (but will do so at some point, as I see a thread for a more in-depth discussion on the topic itself), but Key magic can go either way with me. What I do know I have mentioned (a lot, actually) as being incredibly important to me is whether or not the structure of the story being told properly allows for the possibly of magic to exist, (aka, whenever I refer to the “believeability” of a plot device within its given context), and Refrain is one of few exceptions where I personally found it acceptable. There’s enough foreshadowing in the game that at the very least shows that something is off, and Kurugaya’s route showed a possibility of time-loops and memory loss as recurring themes. Every route resets at some point, and likely in the very way she described when she says she wished she just woke up and forgot everything that had happened. (Poor Yuiko got the short straw 
) All in all, I didn’t have any trouble buying into the magical bullshit idea this time around.
…Well, not quite, but most of it. What still has me scratching my wonderfully sparkly beard in confusion (and somebody can probably break it down better than I can) is this: the ultimate purpose of the dream world is to make Riki and Rin strong enough to carry on in a world without Kyousuke (or Masato, Kengo, and the other Busters, by extension). This is what makes it possible for them to save everyone, which is all well and good, but was unfortunately invalidated for me when Kyousuke survives, and everyone waits for his return to take the lead again like before rather than Riki stepping up in his absence. I love the interpretation of Riki hitting the home run before the dream world collapses as a metaphor for him being able to surpass Kyousuke’s expectations, but I couldn’t help but feel it rang a tad hollow, considering what actually happens. Again, maybe someone can explain it better, (and maybe I’m just being overly pessimistic/skeptical) but I think it’s a little hard to write it off since it really strikes me as a best of both worlds ending; strength gained and retained (maybe?) in the real world, pain mostly and conspicuously forgotten in dreamland, and topped off with the obligatory, run of the mill, anime trope beach episode to leave you with the nice warm fuzzy feeling all over. This is admittedly kind of a small gripe, but I feel that if Kyousuke died, it would have made the journey and message more meaningful overall. But hey, that’s more of a personal hang up than anything else, so your mileage will likely vary.
Either way, it was a fucking blast. I was sniveling like a child through most of it, and despite the little rant I just went on about my gripes with the last moments, I did totally smile like a hypocritical asshole when Kyousuke showed up in the window.
Oh yeah, and another shout out to the music, A World Where Nothing Happened was the standout. Wonderfully unsettling. Simultaneous loved and fucking hated every time it came on.
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Responding to a post from the Rin thread…
You call this a “Kanon-style” rant but I associate Kanon rants with negativity. This post about Rin2 however is a highlight of everything great about the route… At least if you’re viewing it as a small part of a greater whole.
The characters and events of Rin2 are stupid and forced. Every single step of the route involves Riki failing, whether it by his own weaknesses or by the betrayal of those he depended on.
Kyousuke set in motion a plan that was impossible to succeed. Riki followed his great leader by creating a second plan that was impossible to succeed. And that’s the intent (of both Kyousuke and Maeda.) This is a plan to twist the world to such an extreme that Riki is forced to act.
Kyousuke himself was convinced that he (and a bunch of the others) were dead, and that Riki and Rin would be alone. He outright rejected any other possibility. He committed “sins” purely to reach a conclusive growth for Riki, and after a certain amount of loops he no longer cared about the means he which he achieved such a goal. Once you reach Refrain it becomes obvious that all these ideas are the point of Rin2; Kyousuke is so caught up in his grand plan that he no longer realizes people have agency. He’s effectively blinded by his own power, waiting for everything to line up how he ordered… And Riki and Rin are dumb/smart enough to go along with it up until the very last moment of the VN.
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I guess I should add a disclaimer of sorts to that post of mine. But here, I shall simply reword it:
Welcome to Rin2, where everyone is a fucking idiot - (Except for Masato.) - AND I LOVE THAT!
Or as Kanon would say, “But we love them flaws, right? Oh yes, gimme that shit.”
So yes, all those things are great.
Kyousuke’s and Riki’s mistakes are really relatable and understandable. They showcase their flaws in a beautiful, albeit shocking way.
Kyousuke barely ever failed, so he got careless. I can’t really blame him, since Riki’s development was progressing marvelously. Riki had faced his own weaknesses head-on with the other heroines as long as he kept trying. No wonder Kyousuke expected Rin to make progress when faced with a bigger challenge, as well. But Kyousuke completely miscalculated. I attribute that, additionally to the reasons you named, to two factors:
- Rin and Riki are different people with different qualities and different weaknesses. Similar approaches wouldn’t necessarily yield similar results.
- Riki’s main drive in those routes was love. Rin didn’t have that, or anything similar.
Riki was driven into a corner and Kyousuke really seemed like a god. I don’t blame Riki for deciding to run with his tail between his legs. I didn’t see any better solution, either. And especially, Riki was under a lot of pressure, had a small time limit and Rin’s personality was disintegrating right before his eyes.
After running away, it woulda been smarter to make Rin contribute to their survival, but again, I get it. Riki just wanted to make her happy and keep her away from hardships, I guess. Ironically, that’s exactly why she was still weak.
Kengo, too, was being foolish if you know his reasons from Refrain. He just wanted to play around forever. That’s why he challenged Kyousuke and used Riki as a figurehead. It’s childish, but it makes Kengo complete as a character. It’s absolutely relatable.
The only thing I can’t forgive about the mess of Rin2 is Rin’s betrayal.
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See, I’d disagree with that. From Kyousuke’s perspective Rin2 wasn’t a failure at all, in fact I think it went perfectly. It’s only seen as a failure as a reader because we are watching events from Riki’s POV, and Riki’s once-unwavering trust in Kyousuke is destroyed.
You’re correct when you say that Rin2 is a showcase of Kyousuke’s flaws, but I don’t believe it is a showcase of Kyousuke’s failures. The plan went perfectly.
Going along the same thought process, I also disagree with the following:
“No wonder Kyousuke expected Rin to make progress…”
“Kyousuke completely miscalculated”
In regards to Kengo’s involvement, I think his actions are driven not primarily by a desire to play around forever but by a moral rejection of Kyousuke’s brute-force methods. This is further explained during Refrain.
I think her actions are more understandable once you think about the symbolism of the cats. The cats in Rin’s life are effectively a substitute for Kyousuke, and with that symbolism in mind her “betrayal” was a choice of Kyousuke over Riki, which I think is entirely acceptable given her character; Rin just wants her brother and some friends—she doesn’t want to run away, but that’s all Riki can do.
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For reasons personal to my own, I really, really, REALLY wish your thoughts aren’t true. I refuse to believe that Kyousuke would, no matter how desperate the situation, drive Rin into that corner. Sure, he wanted Riki and Rin to be separated. And sure, maybe he wanted to force Rin to stand on her own two feet. And maybe the whole Riki and Rin escaping was his plan all along!
But I refuse to believe that he intended for Rin to be driven to a point where she could no longer trust anyone, having to attend a special school, no matter how temporary that might have been. I refuse to believe that Kyousuke would be so insensitive as to wish his own sister to become mentally unstable no matter how desperate the situation was. Because the Kyousuke in my mind and the Kyousuke in my heart would never do something like that.
The worst part about all this is that there is a part of me that thinks he might actually do just that and he might actually be that kinda guy; and I don’t think I would ever forgive him for that.
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There’s a reason I say I don’t like Kyousuke as a person. That earlier mention of “sin” was described by Kyousuke himself, and he even briefly touches upon an idea of struggling to live with his actions should Riki and Rin somehow save him.
Kyousuke is the guy with the plan here, and he goes to extremes. I’m not entirely sure if Rin’s mental state is specifically brought up as part of his grand plan, but he was the one who caused it to happen, and he makes use of it to further his goals through Refrain. Kyousuke is so caught up in himself that he fixates on such cruel methodology, but you gotta do what you gotta do. It’s entirely understandable when you realize that he has both lived a multitude of existences within the dream world (some of which with horrible outcomes) and reached the brink of death several times within the “real” world, and that he believes continuing to live is more important than any event in the fake reality.
I’d link some screenshots from earlier posts that back this up, but they’re all dead. Nevertheless this toxic nature shows up in monologues from both Kyousuke and Kengo throughout Refrain, as well as earlier in the common route.
I will have more thoughts in the next couple of days on the re-read, but as of now I disagree with you on a few points. I don’t believe at all that Kyousuke is the issue in Rin’s mental state. I mean, you aren’t talking about the issue that had caused her to recess into a non communicative like state? Or did you mean something else?
I don’t find his method cruel at all, for me it makes sense. Extreme or not, I think someone could do far worse. Personally, to me, I think he is the best character of the game . I will describe this further once I read it all again and take all into account.
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I’m also going to disagree with Takafumi here on the sole basis that it’s based off an abnormal amount of assumption of ill will. There’s no actual concrete evidence that Kyousuke had meant to traumatise Rin the way she was (both in terms of her transfer and the incident that happened at their grandfather’s home) as much as there is evidence that he knew how to take advantage of it to give her the last push she needs.
Because, yes, he’d take advantage of it. In Takafumi’s reasoning I find there to be a drastic lack of understanding that Kyousuke will do anything and paint himself any image as long as his sister and Riki can make it out of there safely. That’s the reason he’s never lingered on the Rin2 fuck-up; Rin surpassed her trauma and grew stronger because of it, so there’s no reason to “regret” it if the alternative was her staying the way she’d always been and confront herself to grief she couldn’t overcome.
There was nothing in Rin2 that went any particularly according to plan for any of the Busters and none of them liked the current state of things, and having Rin being so inherently destroyed the way she was in Refrain was certainly not part of the plan either considering the world was at the end of its capacity and if Riki had not grown enough to try and protect the Little Busters, then their entire efforts would’ve been in vain.
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I know that this isn’t necessarily a Natsume Kyousuke character discussion but there are a number of matters concerning the character that I would like to touch upon. First, before touching upon the refrain Kyousuke, I find it necessary to step back and understand where he comes from in Rin2. Kyousuke in Rin2 is a trap for the audience, or rather I would call him a test. He is a test to see if Riki and Rin are strong enough for his gamble as well as a test for the audience. Rather than the goal being to make you hate Kyousuke, RIn2 is a test to see if you’ve learned the lessons of the other heroine arcs. Namely that there are no bad people in this world (Kud, Mio, and Haruka). The game gave you the tools you need so that by Rin2 you can realize that you are in fact not supposed to hate Kyousuke.
That being said, what is it that Kyousuke wants? Kyosuke wants Rin and Riki to mature and to become independent, that they may face the coming hardship in stride. Rin2 was a failure. Kyousuke intended for Rin to go to the sister school and help them, he intended for Riki to deal with the pain and welcome her home in open arms and for them to be a happy couple. And then he would end it. But that isn’t what happened. In refrain Kyousuke laments how his haste had resulted in Rin becoming traumatized and the group dynamic falling apart. These conclusions are not drawn from Riki’s POV but rather Kyousuke’s himself. He not only openly admits to everything being his own fault in refrain when probed about the sorry state of Rin, but laments the repeating structure saying how the answeres do not exist in “this” world.
Kyousuke is a simple character. He loves Rin and Riki more than anything. The depth of his love might be stronger than anyone else’s in the story. While the man tries to test the two, he would never wish for the mental destruction of his own sister. In refrain Kyousuke has lost confidence that his plan, which has been in effect since the beginning of the world, was correct. But that being said he doesn’t just give up. He still risks his life in the real world, exhausting himself in the wish world, so that Riki can have a chance to undo his mistakes. Yes, to the end, he believes in Riki. That’s why Lennon shows him the ball, or why Masato is regressed, or why he pushes Riki on how to beat Kengo.
Kyousuke is an intelligent indivisual, but the entire premise of refrain is that Kyousuke failed. He tried for too much too fast and lost the bet because of that.
And for further clarification, let me quote the man:
“Since when have the gears been getting out of order? Was I wrong about my plan? No, I suppose from the begging there was nothing I could change. The two of them will stay weak forever…”
Kyousuke had a plan and it failed because at that time Riki and Rin were to weak. Kyousuke is a strong presence, but he is once that loves his friends more than anything and would never wish for lasting despair. Like Masato and Kengo, all he ever treasured was that friendship.
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I’m just mentioning stuff that was said in Refrain though. For the one bit that I wasn’t 100% sure on, I specified “I’m not entirely sure…” but that’s arguably the least important part. There’s no assuming here.
Funnily enough, though I say it’s the least important part, it’s the only part people are talking about… So here’s some clarification.
I never said there was. In fact I specified that I have no evidence to show so, only to show that he regrets causing it. I said the events of Rin2 were perfect, and they were in the grand scheme of things. I only spoke of things I knew were true, which is antithesis of assumption.
Here look, this is what assumption would look like:
The resulting trauma may have been unsought and unexpected on Kyousuke’s part, I’m not sure.
I find it unlilkely, since the following plan and the final step of the Visual Novel is based around Rin regressing to her childhood self, but it basically comes down to whether you think Kyousuke can improvise that quickly or not. I don’t think he can, especially with the broken image of a loved one in front of him, so I imagine it’s all part of the plan. I also question why Rin would regress. One would assume that requires a specific trigger, but Kyousuke is the guy in charge, so surely that trigger wouldn’t show up…
That’s assumption; unproven nonsense full of “I think” and “I find” unlike all the other stuff I’ve written. If I was assuming, I’d make sure not to speak with objective dialogue.
Which is exactly the point I made.
No no, that’s the entire point.
Kyousuke is doing everything in the hopes that Riki and Rin will survive once they’re gone. There’s an entire segment of monologue that I’ve mentioned in two different posts (via the quoted "sin) that explicitly explains this, from the perspective of Kyousuke.
But he does linger on it and he does regret it… He continues forward, and he continues to manipulate people, because that’s the entire point. It’s a Penguindrum-style conflict of morals where the negative actions of the past directly create the positive actions of the future, leading to a “if it’s for them, it’s fine” mindset. And so many times in the VN he shows up just to say “don’t think about it, just continue forward.” This is the great planning that leads to our happy ending, but earlier in the VN Kyousuke literally says about the exact ending we see, that if such a thing were true, there’d be no meaning. Y’know what, let’s slap down some quotes this time…
I picture something while moving…
Maybe it’s because all I keep seeing is the same scenery…
I picture the two of them struggling to overcome this despair.
Riki, whose mind runs well in every situation…
First he calms himself down amidst this horrible scene…
And he collects branches and makes a stretcher…
Rin is by his side.
She searches the other passengers’ bags for useful items and uses them to treat the injured ones…
It really is just a dream.
I merely imagine it to give myself courage.
If they actually did that, everything would be without meaning.
The meaning of me crawling…
My sins in trampling down many things underfoot…
They will all be for naught…
Never make it so… Riki.
And this is something you see every now and then from Kyousuke. Whenever his actions are questioned, his response is either complete silence or a question of purpose, both serving the presentation of the same “I will continue no matter what” message.
{Riki}“I’m sure even you… have never seen her crying…”
{Kyousuke}"…I haven’t."
{Kyousuke}"…She never cried."
{Kyousuke}“But that’s because she’s always been under my care.”
{Riki}“Then help her one more time…”
{Kyousuke}“Then there would be no meaning.”
{Riki}“No meaning…”
{Riki}“What’s the point in doing it in such a forceful way!”
Heck, since I’m actually specifying scenes now, that scene with the CG of the busters helping Kyousuke stand up is all about Kyousuke asking if his actions were okay now that Riki has grown.
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But a lot of your posts on this topic are oriented towards the fact that Kyousuke is cruel for doing what he does the way he does, and for the most part that really isn’t it.
The problem is that there’s a difference between willingly turning things your way and taking advantage of the only positive aspects of a shit situation and what Kyousuke does as a whole is the latter. If he could have done without harming Rin the way he did, and let’s be honest, it was closer to Riki’s fault for failing to protect her than it was Kyousuke’s considering what traumatised her was namely the end-route of Rin2 which he didn’t have a direct hand in like her sister school transfer, he would’ve never done it.
Yes, in Refrain he used the outcome of Rin2 to his advantage, but that wasn’t because Rin2 had been “perfect” for the grow-up plan, it was solely because it was one of his, if not the, last chance for him to execute his plan and ensure Riki and Rin can get out of the accident scene.
When you don’t have any choice anymore because all of the supporting pillars of the world are starting to collapse, I don’t think you can afford to be picky on a literal life-or-death matter, and that makes him determined more than cruel since none of what he’d done was ever with the intention of forcing them to grow “no matter what”.
Mistakes like that aren’t cruelty, because Kyousuke’s entire plan prior to Rin2 was based on making sure to nurture the both of them within their childhood environment: surrounded by their friends and while having fun at all times because there was no purpose in doing otherwise (a reasoning he openly explained in Episode: Kyousuke). Up until that point, all he had done was within a nurturing environment that would make sure to never cause any lasting harm as they worked their way through the final loops of the world, and you’re basing your view of him on a sincere fuck-up he had no choice but to take advantage of its result of because he was actively dying at that time and if he hadn’t, Rin and Riki would’ve too.
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“Since when have the gears been getting out of order? Was I wrong about my plan? No, I suppose from the begging there was nothing I could change. The two of them will stay weak forever…"
Kyousuke has doubt because his plan failed and now he must suffer from his lack of judgement, or rather his over assumption and confidence.
“I believe that… you can achieve what I couldn’t… Riki.”
What couldn’t Kyousuke achieve? Maturing Rin and supporting her,. He couldn’t achieve that, in other words–he failed.
“My sins in trampling down many things underfoot… they will all be for naught… never make it so… Riki.”
What is a sin? A wrongdoing, something to regret. Kyousuke laments his failures but trusts that Riki will ultimately make things right. He has hope that Riki can rectify his failure and make it so that even so Rin can find happiness.
“Even I failed… you’re amazing Riki… You’ve already overtaken me…”
Kyousuke was not trying to break Rin, he failed. The genius of Kyousuke’s character and the source of his charisma is that he is not perfect. As he says many times in episode Kyousuke, he failed in his original plan, well conceived as it was. There is no truth in this world suggesting that Kyouske intended to hurt Rin. Quite the contrary it is something that eats at him and that he considers a failure on his part. He plays the martyr and allows Riki to resent him in Rin2, to turn that frustration into determination, but at the end of it all he pushed too hard too soon.
Kyousuke makes moves in refrain based on the events of Rin2, but that isn’t because he wanted Rin2 to happen. It’s because Kyousuke, even in his failure, does not want to give up on the happiness of his friends. He keeps fighting even though he clearly messed up, all because he will never give up on Rin and Riki. That’s what makes Kyousuke so endearing, he tries even when he didn’t know the answer, even when he failed he gets up again and again, just like with the bus.
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I don’t think there’s any grounds to argue that his methods aren’t cruel, or that they aren’t right. The guy makes the right choices, and I will defend everything he did in the story, but I don’t morally like the decisions he made. That’s the intent though, even Kyousuke doesn’t like what he does. He acts because he is the leader and he is working towards a realistic future.
Yes, I’ve said that.
Very confusing sentence, so I might misunderstand what you’re trying to say. In regards to it being “closer to Riki’s fault” I’d say that’s very arguable. Kyousuke is in charge of creating and continuing these scenarios, and he should’ve probably included a fail safe in the likely event that Riki fails. I’d pin almost all of it on Kyousuke realistically; you can’t make a plan without thinking about variable factors. This is why I said Kyousuke is so caught up that he forgets people have agency (or for a more positive spin, he believes in Riki too much.) Kyousuke can manipulate so much about the world, and as seen in previous routes he can also manipulate Riki and Rin to a great degree, but he doesn’t have absolute control. The resulting Refrain was his own folly, and his own accomplishment.
Obviously Riki failed too, but you’d think that Kyousuke—having watched Riki fail multiple times—would be hesitant in his trust of Riki. I do however believe that a lack of hesitation was a crucial trait for Kyousuke to have.
But it was perfect. As I’ve said before, Kyousuke’s entire plan falls back on a “if it ends positively, it was all worth it” mindset. In relation to Kyousuke, the plan was perfect. It served the exact purpose he desired. I think there’s some confusion here stemming from emotion… This all isn’t to say Kyousuke believed in the moral implications of his decisions (as he clearly expresses otherwise) but Rin2 was perfect in relativity. Hence my starting statement of “At least if you’re viewing it as a small part of a greater whole” since this entire conversation is based on the perspective of Kyousuke and his “greater goal” thinking.
Kyousuke works on short term pain for long term prosperity, and isn’t that the definition of growth?
As I read your post, I can’t help but feel like you are agreeing with me, but framing it as disagreement because of a misunderstanding. Maybe I haven’t expressed my point perfectly, or maybe you haven’t read it all. Something is missing here.
Don’t have much to say about your post, however the scene you quoted is the scene that explains exactly what I am saying…
Only I believed in my own plan…
Enforced it without asking anybody else’s opinion…
Drove Rin into a corner…
Made her dig up her personal trauma…
――and drove her to despair.
Everything will be repeated.
Over and over.
The same morning begins yet again.
But Rin’s mind remains broken.
Will everybody despise me?
Will they accuse me of being in the wrong?
I did something horrible to Rin.
‘We should have just kept playing around and having fun.’
Will they accuse me with those words?
Very well… I’ll take it all.
Yet…
I’m going to keep on fighting.
Even if it’s me alone, I’m going to keep on fighting.
The two of them will definitely survive.
As long as they are strong.
I’m going to save them.
I’m going to do anything I can for that.
Even if it means breaking the rules.
Even if it means abandoning morality.
Whatever it takes, I’m going to save those two.
I’m definitely going to do it.
Friend, you are correct in your assertion that Kyousuke definitely believes that “the ends justify the means,” however you seem to have some notable misconceptions about where ideas originated versus how they were adapted as the story progressed. It is true to say that Kyousuke is and was always willing to do morally questionable things in service of his plan to raise Riki and Rin in the stopped world, however Kyousuke wanted Rin2 to be the end of it. He wanted Rin2 to be the last world in which Rin and Riki wake up. The fact that Rin2 wasn’t the ending is the failure that the other posters have been saying occurred. Like I said previously, Kyousuke from that point doesn’t just give up and works within the confines of his failure. But that doesn’t change the fact that he did, in fact, fail, as the man says countless times himself. You seem to understand his psychology on a basic level, but your chronology with regard to how he implements his ideas is twisted. Kyousuke failed only in that Rin2 was supposed to be the end. He failed because the refrain world even exists at all.
Other than that I don’t think you have many major misconceptions. Just think of the chronology and suddenly everything makes sense.
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But this entire topic started with:
Something explicitly added to preface the discussion, to focus in on a perspective of the overall story. That’s why this is in the Refrain Arc discussion and not the Rin2 discussion, and that’s why I ended the initial post with:
Because I’m talking about Rin2 as a means to an end, not as an isolated instance. If we were to end the VN on Rin2 then it’d be a failure, but we didn’t. We ended with Refrain, and in Refrain the events of Rin2 were the catalyst that brought upon a perfect ending. As a tool to bring success, Rin2 was masterful.
Yes my guy, Rin2 is of course what prefaced the ending. But it can’t be called a tool for success since no one wanted Rin2 to end that way. A tool is only a tool if it is being used as a tool to acomplish a goal. Sure it did lead to the good end, but refrain only happened out of necessity. Therefore, you can not call Rin2 a masterful tool since no one wanted Rin2 to be used the way it was, not Rin, not Riki, and–as we have established–not Kyousuke.
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