Discussion topic for Ooima Yoshitoki’s manga and the film adaptation directed by Yamada Naoko. Tag references to any outside works with context and [spoiler][/spoiler]
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What would you rate this work?
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Having only seen the movie, I found Koe no Katachi to be a flawed if enjoyable experience.
Starting with the negatives, a lot of characters were just simply there and didn’t really fulfill any tangible purpose as far as I could see - Sahara, Kawai, and especially Mashiba (I had to look up this dudes name lol) may as well have just not been there and I honestly don’t think the movie would’ve lost anything of value. Even broccoli head and Ueno, who were a bit more significant, still felt rather incomplete and I think much of the drama surrounding these particular side characters often felt forced and sometimes seemed to just come out of left field. It also struck me as strange that these characters came together in the way they did, seemingly for no real reason and there wasn’t much of a group dynamic between them either. They do add things to the leads development as characters, but I still think they could have been done much better. I felt that Yuzuru was the only one that was utilized especially well.
Second, the movie sometimes struck me as proceeding too fast and some scenes would just rapidly transition at a pretty crazy pace that I found difficult to keep up with. Perhaps there’s some reason for this that I’m missing (planning on rewarching it later to see if maybe I catch some mind blowing details that I might have missed), but after my first watch there were a number of points where I was confused.
Moving on to things I liked, naturally the production values are top notch, and outside of a particularly bothersome cut in of a track towards the beginning of the movie I found the ost to be generally strong and fitting.
Where I think the movie does really good (and what largely made it an enjoyable watch for me) was seeing Shouya’s painstaking and fumbling attempts at redeeming himself for some of the INSANELY scummy shit he’s done in the past. I found the growth of his character in particular to be remarkable and even rather believable. I kind of wish there was more scenes with just him and Shouko, because the two characters being together and trying their best to overcome their issues was by far the most endearing parts of the movie.
Shouko herself also elevated beyond what I was expecting, as I was more or less expecting her to be a bit of a sympathy dump for the audience that would largely just peddle Shouya’s growth as a character. I’m happy to say that wasn’t the case, and she perhaps grows just as much as Shouya does.
(Also she’s cute as hell would P R O T E C T/10 best movie ever made GG KyoAni)
Overall for now am tentatively giving it a 4/5. Perhaps my opinion will improve upon rewatching.
1 Like
I had honestly been hyped for this film for several months; ever since it was announced, in fact. I don’t think I’ve ever been this hyped for an anime before, and when I was finally able to see it, I was overjoyed.
I will admit that it wasn’t like how I expected, and it didn’t live up to the hype that I had stored for so many months. The trailer for it made me think it would be completely different, as it had a completely different feel than the movie, and I was slightly upset that it didn’t live up to my expectations. However, I still enjoyed it for what it was, even with its problems.
The story itself is pretty refreshing, as I have never seen an anime that focuses around a deaf character. The way it tells its story can sometimes be a bit off, however. The movie can be really slow at times, but then skip something important and just show the results of what supposedly happened without any kind of context. A lot of the important moments are just shoved into short montages that don’t really leave much of an impact on the viewer. It can lead to some confusion, but I know this is because they’re trying to squeeze in as much content from the manga as possible into a 2 hour film. It doesn’t take away too much, and nor did it really annoy me to the point where I became legitimately frustrated, but it might indeed do so for fans of the original source material.
I have also heard that some people have gripes about the ending. I’m actually okay with the ending, as I think it ended on a good enough note. My problem isn’t with the ending, but how the rest of it was handled.
I don’t really know how to explain it, but it just feels like the movie is missing something. And it’s not even the cut content from the manga, it’s just… something else. It’s like the film just has a large gaping hole in the middle of it that it wasn’t able to successfully fill up. Maybe it has something to do with the atmosphere, I’m not sure.
I’m not saying that I didn’t enjoy the story, because I did, but I was just underwhelmed by how it was handled in a lot of areas.
Not only does the story itself have problems with its pacing and cut content, but its characters also suffer tremendously, specifically the side characters.
Most of the side characters impacted little to nothing with the story, and there wouldn’t be much of a difference if they didn’t exist. I am aware that the main focus is on Shouko and Ishida, but why introduce so many other characters if you’re going to do nothing with them? I feel as if they were only there for the sake of being there, just to satisfy the fans of the original manga series. However, even the fans of the manga were upset to see the side characters have almost no purpose. I’ve been told that there’s so much cut content with them that it’s ridiculous, and I honestly believe them. It’s beyond obvious that they used to be much more important.
Despite my many complaints about this film, like I stated previously, I still enjoyed it, just not as much as I had expected to. I suppose my hype raised my expectations a bit too high, but that happens to all of us at times.
Even though its story and characters greatly suffer from pacing issues and cut content, Ishida, Shouko, and a few of the side characters were still able to remain interesting. The animation is also very beautifully done, and its soundtrack, while simple, is relaxing and symbolic.
Overall, I still like it better than Kimi No Na Wa.
1 Like
I strongly disagree about Kawai, but I’ll get back to that cunt. The thing about the side characters is that they cut a huge part of the manga. The group initially gets together because Nagatsuka forces Ishida to help him make a movie, and they need more people. This movie sub-plot runs for more than half the series, and I was so bored by it. Since there’s no movie in the film, most of the development relating to it obviously gets scrapped.
Other than that, Sahara’s character also relates to Ueno’s development (Which got watered down), and she is also a counter-part to Ishida; initially, she does things for Shouko that he wants to do, but in the end Ishida has to pull the big load. That last bit happens, but they cut Ishida’s thoughts about wanting to do certain stuff for Shouko, so how would you know.
Mashiba is still the trigger for Ishida insulting everyone on the bridge, but he doesn’t get a hand in solving that issue like in the manga.
Now
This bitch. This. Bitch. This absolute scum of the Earth, I think, is actually a really important part of the film just the way she is. She is perfectly constructed for the purpose of inducing pure hatred. She is nothing but a manipulative, narcissistic pig that helps enable practically everything bad throughout the entire story. Bullying is obviously a big part of the plot, but it’s a multifaceted look at bullying. Yes, Ishida would probably have messed with Shouko no matter what because he was so extremely bored, but it’s really important to note how much encouragement he gets from everyone else. Kawai is the pure embodiment of the person who stands back making the bully feel emotionally validated, and she has her head so far up her own ass that she doesn’t even see any fault in her actions ever. When Ishida calls her out on her bullshit in the film, he says that she only cares about herself, but it was way better in the manga. There, he says something like, “Kawai, from the bottom of my heart, you disgust me.” I also think it’s great how her one trait of wanting to appear perfect to everyone is enforced by her design. She is extremely beautiful and her name is really close to 可愛い[Kawaii] meaning cute/lovable. She’s a simple character that high lights an important but not so often talked about part of the theme, and she takes the perfect amount of space in the story.
4 Likes
I have a fairly love-hate relationship with these series, so collecting my thoughts on this one are a bit complicated…
I got introduced to this manga from the award-winning oneshot waaay back when and absolutely fell in love. You could imagine my excitement after they announced that the manga would be serialized; for a good number of weeks, I followed the manga as it was released pretty faithfully. Although, after a few weeks (and a few chapters of horrible translation) my interest started to plummet. Helios sums it up pretty well:
It wouldn’t be a long shot to say that the movie subplot practically ruined the manga for me. I dropped the series midway through and lost hope for it.
Fast forward to the movie announcement, suffice to say, I was pretty excited. I’ve been disappointed with Kyoto Animation’s offerings as of then, but thought it would be hard for them to screw this one up… Unless they made it drag on as much as the manga. Realizing it was a feature film adaptation took away all my worries. No, they would not be able to animate everything, but that’s fine. It’d give them a chance to trim out the fat and keep the story a lot more focused.
The movie lived up to my expectations. It kept the story focused, trimmed out the fat, but was able to tell and show everything it needed to. The biggest complaint, both on here and outside, is that the side characters are, yes, underdeveloped. But with a story that focuses on both Shouko and Ishida’s growth, do we need to know about these character’s motivations? I can’t say that they can be removed from the story as they provide valuable plot devices, but I think the amount of coverage they received in was good enough to keep the story focused. Perhaps I’m bitter over seeing too much of them in the manga, but that’s my two cents.
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It at least looks really good, but quite a lot of the movie felt emotionally manipulative (I understand that this is the point of fiction, but I shouldn’t be able to catch the manipulation, or at least appreciate the attempt).
The characters are really the main problem here. Other than a few, the ones that were the main players in the drama were the ones that I couldn’t take too seriously, with the exception of Ishida and Yuzu. Characters like Ueno feel like they never really grew up even a little past the initial event in elementary school. I understand Ueno feeling that way when she was little, but by this time, I would assume she’d be a little mature in her mindset. On the other hand, I think Kawai is a little more justified in her actions, but I can’t say I cared for her much either.
I thought Nishiyama of all characters was weak. This is a problem I have with a lot of other anime characters, in that I think she’s a bit too waifu-baitish. By this I mean, she’s too “pure and submissive.” The interactions with her feel like the others are talking down to her, rather than someone of the same age. She’s deaf, not an idiot. Hell, her younger sister (best girl) feels a lot more mature than she does. Granted, they do try to expand her character a lot more by the end of the movie, but the reason for the actions she takes, and the action she took were far too extreme for me to think that they were justified ones.
To be honest, I found that the film executed a lot of the drama surrounding Nishiyama and the characters that weren’t Ishida quite poorly. Focusing a lot more on him would have been to the movie’s advantage, since he is more interesting than the others, and his development was overall done quite well, but with a bit more time could have been amazing. Besides him, the rest of the drama feels like things that could have been avoided by proper communication between characters.
I probably shouldn’t like this movie much, but at the end of the day I was still entertained through a good amount, and I love everything about the presentation. There was some good in it like of course Ishida, Yuzu, and I feel the side characters were really nice. But whenever it got into the meat of it’s drama, it began to quickly go downhill.
This shot and the whole sequence before the fireworks display is one of my favorites. This is a shot of extreme anxiety. Leading up to this shot, we cut from the Nishimiya apartment and get a small montage of people enjoying the festival. There are five shots that average about 30 frames each. There’s lots of people, classic festival scenery and throughout we hear happy voices and laughter. After that we cut to Shouko. There’s just her, the sky and perfect silence. This shot is held for 103 frames, more than three times as long as the previous ones. I get this a lot, and I think it’s a pretty general reaction that people get really uncomfortable when a movie holds a shot for a long time. It’s just awkward to look at the same picture for too long. Add to this that practically every trailer showed Shouko on the balcony, and this becomes a perfect recipe for bad feelings. If you’re watching this film, it’s very likely that you know Shouko wearing a yukata means shit is about to hit the fan, and by them not showing the ground it’s like she’s already about to jump.
7 Likes
I loved the huge amount of foreshadowing, symbology and non-verbal communication that there was in the film. Placing the umbrella in front of you to avoid looking at other people, the roller coaster as a sign that after a happy climbing stage there’ll be a scary downhill, the shot that Helios described, the expressivity of the faces (especially the way how mouths are sometimes split into two parts: right and left).
Something that I think the film did particularly well is portraying relationships between a group of friends, where not everyone has to necessarily get along with everyone, and that’s why I think Ueno is a really useful character in this aspect. She acts as a disruptive character that allows the protagonist to stay alert when the atmosphere is a relaxed one, and makes the watcher have always something to be worried about.
Finally, a special mention to the animation and OST, for breathtaking face animation, very detailed hair in general and quite a few amazing pieces of OST, the most notable of those being Lit in my opinion.
2 Likes
Finally watched this. Put it on hold for a while because it took a while to release, Your Name overshadowed it, and I wasn’t too interested in the synopsis, but I’m glad to have finally seen it.
The first 15 minutes or so of the film were really good. It felt a bit rushed, and there are very clear adaptation pains, but I enjoyed it regardless. Ishida was pretty fun and I found Nishimiya’s effect on the class interesting. The way that the teachers and parents seemed to make situations as difficult as possible for Nishimiya and the rest of the class was enjoyable, and the inevitable bullying was at times comedic and at times ill-mannered, a natural mix.
Beyond that, I started to lose interest. The turnaround onto Ishida was expected, and though not entertaining to watch, it made sense as a progressing arc. Post time-skip is when I really start to have problems with the film.
Ishida changes extremely, from a naturally ignorant bonehead to a forcefully ignorant bonehead. The imagery introduced to capture his character (such as the ear covering or the X drawn over every character’s face) were frustratingly lazy choices, but I can understand they were aiming to be accessible to a large audience, and said imagery is very quick and simple, meaning they can dedicate time elsewhere in the plot.
Nishimiya doesn’t change much, albeit that was the point of her previously established character. She had surprisingly little focus in the film, but I’m kind of glad since she wasn’t very entertaining and she certainly wasn’t the most charismatic. Realistically I don’t think she’s even a character… She’s just a pretty thing to grab the eyes of the people who find her traits moe.
For charisma we have Nishimiya’s little sister, who stole the family spotlight in a way, though that’s partially because for a time she acted as an intermediary between the main characters due to Ishida and Nishimiya’s past. She was the best new introduction, and she kept the story alive and going for a while.
Interestingly Ueno, who was a rather comical characterization at the start of the time, managed to develop into an actual person. She was far and away the most fleshed out of any of the elementary school kids post time-skip. Probably the most reasonable in mindset, even though she presented her mindset in far too violent of a way.
Bro dude is cool if simple. The mothers, despite being the cause of most conflicts, were nice enough. Freckles was cute and Specs was scum. For some reason a bunch of these characters hang out all of a sudden despite having no reason to, and it’s kind of enjoyable. I like the group, even though they barely recognize each other as human beings, there’s a charm there.
So all these characters are established and then… Nothing really happens? There’s like… Nothing. I mean, events occur, people argue, some guy almost dies, but it feels like nothing actually happens. None of the characters change (admittedly that is the point stated by the show) and time never really progresses. I simply don’t know what the focus of the film was… And it really feels like the adaptation pains I mentioned earlier have continued and transformed into this giant mess of nothingness. It’s like someone put together a timeline of events but then failed to connect or comprehend said events.
But I brushed the negativity off. With 30 or so minutes left in the film, they could bookend this well. I’ve enjoyed the cast, and despite realizing I have no idea what the point is, I’m sure they can come sweeping with some protagonist revelation or AnoHana-styled group argument. And funnily enough an argument does come… In the way of Ishida taking off his Natsuki Subaru mask and doing his established thing as the ignorant bully, with everyone else doing their thing as the complacent victims and bystanders. That was a good scene. It was like “yeah nothing’s changed, so let’s embrace the status quo.” Then it throws the status quo away and we’re left with nothing again. A lot of the characters stop getting screen time, there’s a final “conflict” that exists to mirror the past, there’s a debriefing of everything that happened, and then it ends. And I’m like… What was the point? I could’ve just watched the first half of the film and then stopped without missing out on anything important. I could’ve just watched the first 15 minutes and then imagined a better story.
But I enjoyed the cast a bunch, so even though I know I don’t really understand what the film was about, and even though it felt like a waste of time, I can’t think negatively of the overall experience because it had some nice bits and it had some promise. Maybe it’s just one of those “read the source material” cases. It definitely feels so. There should’ve been more time dedicated to the elementary school portion of the story. There should’ve been a brief bridge between the past and the present. There should’ve been better establishment around a majority of the cast and why they are involved in the plot. I’d say Nishimiya should’ve gotten way more focus too, but I didn’t like her, so maybe it’s better for me to say the focus on Nishimiya should’ve been more spread out throughout the film instead of simply having her be around during the big events. Actually, maybe it’d have been best to focus solely on Ishida. He has the most interesting setup, and he had very little development. I’d have liked an Ishida film.
I only read the manga so cant really say anything about the film. I really liked the premise of bullying in the first volume and what the consequences are. At the end of almost every volume I was waiting in anticipation for the next volume to be delivered at my house. However, when we arrived at the last volume I was so pissed off because it was the last volume and the ending left me feeling hollow. Spoiler about ending in manga: I
really expected something in the form of romance but it didnt happen. Yes we could see some foreshadowing of their future by looking at the couple with the child (the mother looks a lot like the mother. I think the father should have looked like the future Ishida but he looked like his chubby friend) but it was still kinda unclear and I am not a fan of open endings. There wasnt even a confession or a kiss!!! Yes some people will think it would be forced or something or that it is better like this but there were just too many hints in the previous volumes for romance (and I REALLY like romance in a story). Sorry guys, I am just kinda pissed. My mind is kind of full with different emotions so it is possible I am saying pure crap so I am very sorry if you have read it haha I felt hollow cause it was just not what I expected and probably some other factors as well but it was some time ago so am pretty unsure of what I am saying. Thanks for reading my pointless rant and have a nice day 
Btw, I want to watch the movie but first I have to watch Your Name. It is coming in the cinemas ont the 2nd of November. A silent voice probably wont reach the Dutch cinemas 
Hi am I late? I’m bored, watched this yesterday, might as well throw up a post.
Movie is aight.
Overhyped. Very overhyped. But aight, not something I’d really watch again, but it’s worth the watch.
So here’s two straight hours of raw fucking Spaghetti.
From what I could tell, the movie is basically trying to say ‘Everyone is a cunt, push though the garbage and find some tolerable ones you can treasure. P.S: Don’t kill yourself.’ which is something I can get behind.
So lets start off with the cunt round off!
Ueno! Queen cunt right here, completely unpleasant person who is willing to hurt people and is never given any shit for it. Worth noting that she knows she’s trash, makes none of her shit slightly acceptable, but at least there is one decent trait in there with the rest of that cesspool. This is a really good character, but she shouldn’t be considered a good person.
Kawai has already been given her verbal beatdown in this thread by Helios who is spot on so I need not repeat this.
Shimada. Are you for real Jimmy? The fuck is wrong with this fam? I don’t give a shit who you fish out of a river, you’re fucked up dude.
These guys are all shitheads, the movie knows that…ish…Either way they serve their role as the cunts that need to be ignored…ish to get to people actually worth interacting with so I give them credit for that role. Fuck all of them though, what abhorrent people.
The other side characters are aight and underdeveloped as shit, and that’s fine, they’re side characters. Shoutouts to the guy who is just mellow as fuck and has no place whatsoever but looks menacing so you expect him to be another cunt. The main exception to this is Yuzuru, who is a good girl.
So first lets talk about King Spaghetti, Shoya, the directing of him looking at peoples feet and just generally being a sperg is good, putting fucking X’s on people faces is a completely unclassy lack of subtlety that kind of ruins how they use his body language to showcase the same thing. His character isn’t really much to write home about, but hey could be worse, you know, for example:
Shoko! So hey, here’s a fun fact, I didn’t know KyoAni made this shit until I saw the logo in the movie(by all means, I briefly considered closing the video right there and then, but decided to let the movies acclaim trump my grudge), Shoko is the kind of blobby shit I dislike that company for to begin with. She’s a nice wonderful person but she’s also little more than a nice wonderful person, it’s not nice to see her getting bullied, it’s nice to see her grow the confidence to tie her hair up and talk to Shoya about the moon(weird topic really), and you don’t want to see her kill herself.
But she’s so blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaand.
So fuck those boring main characters. Lets talk about MOM.
Shoya’s mom is B E S T G I R L. The scene where she flips her shit at Shoya for trying to F U C K I N G K I L L H I M S E L F ika is actually the best scene in the movie and we’re gonna use this a flawless transition into the next part of the post.
To sum this up a little bit, I don’t really like suicide? I don’t like suicide like, a lot. To see him get hit shit told after that is was very good to see. The way this film goes head on into the topic and so strongly opposes it is the part that most strongly resonated with me, I’m sure the all the stuff about the spaghetti might mean a lot more to many people(or even how MUST PROTECC DEAF MOEBLOB CRI EVERY TIM might mean a lot to some people), but I’m always going to remember Koe no Katachi as that movie that opens with a guy deciding not to kill himself and ends with him(metaphorically and literally!) stopping someone else from doing the same.
IN CONCLUSION.
This is a flawed as shit movie, but totally harmless, looks and sounds very nice, I can’t give it outright praise for most of it, but I can at least always remember that time a beautiful lady set fire to £11300 to back up how fucking trash suicide is.
3 Likes
I wouldn’t even say she’s a nice person. She’s blindly selfish in a passive way to the point where she appears wonderful, and I wouldn’t think of her as a better person than Ueno or Shoya.
It’s funny because even if she did intend for the moon conversation, it’d still be a romantic advance. Shoya is just deeeense.
I really enjoyed it. One of my favourite anime movies. I related a lot to it because I have been bullied myself, all throughout school, so, I had more of a connection to it.
