Speaking of Hello Lady, enjoy best first choice:
For the inconvenienced people that don’t know what it means… It’s how to fondle the first heroine you meet’s breasts
Best protag or beast protag?
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Why do people speak so highly of G-Senjou no Maou’s true route? I liked it after the credits but before that I wasn’t particularly excited over it; I was constantly reminded of other stuff so it felt stale. The hype about it is probably also partially to blame, nothing ever lives up to the hype. Overall I liked Mizuha and Tsubaki more despite their routes having obvious problems.
- THE plot twist
- the backstory
- the love
- the character development
- the Maou
- the Gonzou
- the dynamic and suspense
- the scale and the stage of the (pre-credits) final conflict
I liked Mizuha as a character, but her route was utterly lame, except for Kyousuke’s dedication. Most of all, I disliked the fact that they made Mizuha into a copy of her sister.
I found Tsubaki to be a boring character, but her route got really good and emotional around the end. Kyousuke was REALLY ballsy to stand up to Gonzou like that.
But in the end, I found that the side routes didn’t stand out at all and they didn’t contribute much to the entirety of the VN, except for tactically valuable plot holes. They were mostly pretty straight-forward, too.
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Kyouhei I presume. I hated that. It felt like they only introduced it so Kyousuke and Haru could get together smoothly, putting the sex scene immediately after didn’t help. You being the bad guy was the biggest plus for me so I was really disappointed when they removed it.
Gonzou is awesome can’t argue against that. Most of the other points was where I was reminded of other stuff like Code Geass and such, so the only reason I couldn’t enjoy it was because I’d seen it before.
I liked all of the routes, but Haru’s was my favorite just for the after-credits. I liked the route for the same reason I liked the whole of the VN. There was lots going on, and lots of hype during the story. The characters were good, and there was mystery.
If you want a well-written story go read Sharin no Kuni. That was better written, but G-Senjou was a better VN.
Totally wasn’t a plot twist. Just bad writing.
I don’t watch over-hyped stuff, so I wouldn’t touch CG with a 10 ft pole. I loved Guilty Crown, but everyone I know who watched Code Geass hated it. I’m enjoying Aldnoah somewhat, but I’ve heard CG watchers bash it. CG is a ruiner of other stories.
What does that even mean? That GSnM utilized the medium better?
Well I was shown Geass by my brother and then found out about the love for it much later. I liked Guilty Crown too though it was a long time since I watched it. I guess it comes down to perspective of the viewer/reader because GSnM has ridiculous hype behind it but it said above you weren’t aware of that.
Have you been reading my mind again? Because this is pretty damn close to my opinion on the matter. Only difference being that I probably like Aldnoah a lot more that you do.
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You need to read the other routes to appreciate Haru’s too, despite the route order not being enforced.
Indeed. More often than not, other VNs don’t care much about side routes, except when they’re necessary to set up the true route story-wise. But Key is always giving all routes their best effort.
- The only side route element with such an effect that comes to mind would be the plot holes that prevent the reader from reaching a certain conclusion that would lessen the impact of a certain plot twist.
- Why did Taka of all people bother to read the ‘time-wasting’ side routes of G-senjou?
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One of the final scenes links back to other routes. It’s emotional, but only if you’ve read the other routes.
Because they were routes just as much as Haru’s was. Just because one is arguably better than the rest, it doesn’t mean the rest shouldn’t be read. It was a multi-route VN, not a single route VN with bad ends.
[quote=“HeliosAlpha, post:199, topic:108”]
Kyouhei I presume. I hated that. It felt like they only introduced it so Kyousuke and Haru could get together smoothly, putting the sex scene immediately after didn’t help. You being the bad guy was the biggest plus for me so I was really disappointed when they removed it.
Isn’t it a bit unfair to put so much blame on the the story just because it didn’t go the way you wanted it to? It’s a matter of preferences, really.
[quote=“Takafumi, post:200, topic:108”]
Totally wasn’t a plot twist. Just bad writing.[/quote]
It was the opposite of bad writing. Using foreshadowing in order to bait the reader into a certain conclusion, then surprise him by overturning that conclusion he’s been hanging on for the most part of the VN is a pretty smart move that I don’t see often. The foreshadowing was so blatant BECAUSE the whole thing has been planned out from the beginning.
The one thing you could regard as bad writing would be the plot holes in the side routes concerning Maou’s identity, but even those were kind of a tactical traid-off. They sacrificed consistency of the less important side routes for the sake of empowering the true route.
Again, G-Senjou is a VN where reading or not reading the side routes doesn’t make much of a difference.
I don’t quite get where that arrogance comes from, to claim that it’s bad writing, that the plot twist wasn’t planned beforehand, that it was an ‘excuse’ to enforce a certain development.
I agree with @Naoki_Saten on the G-senjou plot twist. The baiting into reaching that certain conclusion was really well-done. I’m guessing you’re referring to the extremely convenient coincidences that made said baiting even possible, but even so you had to turn a blind eye to even worse inconsistencies to keep Kyousuke = Maou, most specifically Maou’s age and the fact that Kyousuke’s mental condition problem is way, WAYYY more convenient than a few coincidences. Side note, what explicit plot holes are you talking about?
On Sharin no Kuni, I will agree that the Ririko plot twist was very well handled and didn’t rely on coincidences and conveniences to work in the way G-senjou did. But on the other hand I found the “Houzuki and Kenichi lying about their disabilities” plot twist to be weaker. Especially the fact that Houzuki didn’t even consider the latter struck me as odd.
The writer Looseboy just messed up. G-Senjou’s development wasn’t smooth.
They wrote a bunch of routes in which Kyousuke was Maou and then while working on Haru’s route the writer had a burst of inspiration for the conclusion and changed all of the routes (apart from Tsubaki’s) to fit this. The “twist” is an attempt to cover up the fact that they re-wrote the whole story outside of the first route. It continued to get messy, and so they just said each route is in it’s own canon. Kyousuke is Maou in some, and not in others.
This was released in the vfb, which had a limited print. Not sure if you can get a copy anymore.
G-Senjou is one of the 2 VNs I’ve rated 10/10… but I can’t say it was well-written.
I wouldn’t even call that second one a twist. It’s just something that happened…
I actually never had that impression, that the canon changes depending on the route. It’s just more convenience and for the sake of protecting the twist it was barely explored, but it wasn’t like Kyousuke = Maou in the routes.
There were several scenes in the side routes that were contradictory to the truth of Maou’s identity. Several scenes that I don’t quite remember suggested that Maou just couldn’t be anyone but Kyousuke.
Maou didn’t execute his plan in any of the side routes for unknown or highly questionable reasons.
In Kanon’s (I believe) route, Mephisto has been beaten to death by Gonzou’s men for a shallow reason whereas this didn’t happen in the common route beyond the branch point.
At one point in the game, Mizuha has been kidnapped by a classmate. The story branches off into Mizuha’s route if Kyousuke decides to immediately call the cops, who then swiftly take care of the case. However, in the common route, it turns out that Mizuha and her abducter were hiding in a completely different building, so the police shouldn’t have been able to ‘take care’ of the matter.
What the heck is a vfb and how reliable a source is it? Did the writer straight-up confess all this stuff?
Hmm, I interpreted those differently.
[quote=“Naoki_Saten, post:210, topic:108”]
Maou didn’t execute his plan in any of the side routes for unknown or highly questionable reasons.
Tsubaki’s Route has a time skip straight over Maou’s plan so it could’ve been executed. Kanon’s Route ends way before Maou’s plan would have happened. Mizuha’s route is the only one where this is a potential problem; it also has a time skip when Tokita disappears, but Maou’s plan should’ve happened at around the same time. Since it didn’t I’m just assuming it happens a bit later and falls right into the time skip. Either that or the failure with the abduction plan delayed Maou’s plan somewhat.
In short, I think it’s very possible that the plan did happen in the extra routes, but for the sake of protecting the twist we simply are not shown that it did.
Okay I’ll have to give you this one. That was a pretty silly piece of plot convenience.
Actually I remember that a bit differently. As far as I recall, if you call the police at that point in time the abducter is still in the school; he would only make his escape to a completely different building thereafter.
I remember there being a few other common complaint points, but even with those I never really had a problem piecing it together somehow to fit with the main story. And as long as I can do that, I can’t really complain.
“Bad writing” is not a term I want to use but the twist felt like they used a loophole to get out jail for free. Since I read all routes in order the foreshadowing felt to narrow to allow extra possibilities so I assumed the obvious. Before Tsubaki’s route started though I guessed the right answer but dropped it later.
Throughout the story you build up emotions on what Maou has done(I presume guilt if you’re a decent human being). Then the twist is basically the writer casting Supreme Verdict on all those emotions and expect it to be fine. Converting that mess of emotions into anger towards the new enemy really didn’t work for me. I felt cheated because fucks I gave were nullified. I guess that’s similar to how many people react to the ending of the Clannad anime.
Since links in spoilers apparently don’t work [Supreme Verdict][1]
[1]: http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=253512
http://www.hlj.com/product/SDN01145/Boo
Visual fanbook. It was an official limited-print compilation of bonus G-Senjou stuff. They did it for Sharin no Kuni, but that had even less copies made.
The interview should be reliable, but since I don’t have a copy, I can only go by second-hand information.
I wasn’t trying to imply that the other routes shouldn’t be read I was saying there was an obvious difference in quality from one to the other, the other routes serve a purpose but that’s all it felt like that was their main purpose was to set up the main route and their individual stories were afterthoughts.
[quote=“Takafumi, post:205, topic:108”]
One of the final scenes links back to other routes. It’s emotional, but only if you’ve read the other routes.
[/quote] I’m assuming your talking about the jail scene which always felt a little off to me. If your assuming Haru’s route as a separate entity then you’ve had interactions with all the girls but I feel like the breakdown each of them had in the interview room wasn’t really justified considering your interactions up to that point.
[quote=“Karifean, post:207, topic:108”]
On Sharin no Kuni, I will agree that the Ririko plot twist was very well handled and didn’t rely on coincidences and conveniences to work in the way G-senjou did. But on the other hand I found the “Houzuki and Kenichi lying about their disabilities” plot twist to be weaker. Especially the fact that Houzuki didn’t even consider the latter struck me as odd.
[/quote] I loved the Sharin no Kuni twist mainly because the way the game handles it. It literally tells you the whole game exactly what is happening but I managed to read over it multiple times. I really enjoy when a story uses your assumptions against you like SnK takes your assumption that Ririko is probably locked away somewhere and throws it back in your face.
