CLANNAD - Misae Sagara Route & Character Discussion

[Marik]

Something I thought of, CLANNAD has quite a bit of routes giving development to different side characters (often without even having romance or very little) which, in my experience, is unique for dating sims. How do you feel this helps its message get across (or does it hinder)?

Since Clannad’s themes are about kinship and what path to walk in life, I think seeing a girl come back to her hometown after having attended a prestigious college in order to wait for her boyfriend does have worth for the overall story. It’s like I’m reading a parallel of the Tomoyo route, considering it’s about a girl who chooses to shut down her entire future for the man she loves. Especially Tomoyo’s bad end. She’s another person who sacrifices their personal success for the people they love.

As for the elusive issue of Misae’s age… Tomoya himself judges Yoshino as being only a few years older than himself. If Yoshino was in school with Misae, then she also shouldn’t be that much older than him if Tomoya’s judgement is right. I also think it was said in another route that Yoshino made his debut when he was 18, when Sunohara’s sister, who is 13 years old, was in Grade school.

[Yerian]

I really have nothing to say about the the flashback story, it’s a nice story and stuff, but what is it’s point to Clannad, it has nothing to do with Tomoya, the only real purpose I can think for it in the long run is showing the power the light orbs have

Very good point. In fact might wanna make this a Key Point thing. With only one other seeming exception, every other CLANNAD route is deeply rooted in themes of family. How does Misae’s route fit that theme, or if it doesn’t then what are its important themes that connect it with the rest of CLANNAD?

Obviously the spoilered part is important, but probably didnt require a whole route just to illustrate it. So how does it really fit in with CLANNAD’s themes? For now, here’s what I can think of:

As we know, CLANNAD is all about Tomoya really. Everything that happens to the people of the town is ultimately a lesson for him. What is this lesson? I’d have to read it again to figure it out, but maybe perseverance in love? I dont know, that sounds cheesy, but it does certainly become very important to Tomoya later on wink wink

[quote=“Karifean, post:22, topic:1951”]
Finally, one thing I find a bit odd is how you don’t get her orb of light straight away. They could’ve just had a scene where Tomoya tells her or something, but instead they decided to make that happen in a completely unrelated route. What’s up with that?
[/quote]I think the point is, Tomoya didnt do anything to warrant the light orb… yet. I’m not sure even him saying something to her, would have really merited it. Continuing on from my postulation above, this route may be purely about teaching Tomoya, helping him with what will come later.

As for the whole thing about Tomoya x Misae being kinda weird… I have to agree. I like @HeliosAlpha’s little head canon. But I guess I will hypothesize that Tomoya felt some kind of attraction to Misae (probably in a mother-son sorta way), and did not understand how to deal with it, and thus “defaulted” to thinking it was a romantic attraction.

Speaking of a mother-son relationship, maybe that’s supposed to be how Misae connects to the family-like themes of CLANNAD? I don’t know, maybe thats a stretch.

[Pepe]

“I sure want to see this cat with two scenes get developed” - nobody ever

That’s why it’s “if anything”. Really the point of the route isn’t to showcase character development at all, but to give off an endearing story with a nice message attached to it.

[Parrexion]

Haven’t gotten to the second part of the route yet so I don’t know if it holds true the whole route but;
What I feel about Misae’s character is that she really tries to act like an average person. Like every time they talk about her she denies it or say’s like she was so much better at things when she was younger. But in the end you usually see the real Misae. It’s quite evident during the baseball game when Akio sees what she’s capable of even though she always rejects he’s claims.

[dne1494]

Finished Misae route not too long ago. What I really like in this route that I didn’t notice the first time is the parallels between Misae & Shima and Tomoya & Nagisa. The interactions between Shima and Misae reminded me of the things to come with the Nagisa route, without spoiling anything. I honestly didn’t like the route the first time I read it, but now coming back and seeing it as the first route (instead of last when I first read the VN), it’s a very relaxed easygoing route for the Tomoya part, but a fun little romance on the Misae side.

With regards to the main theme of Clannad, I really thought of the Tomoya/Misae relationship to be more mother/son as I read through, rather than romantic. I felt that Tomoya treated Misae more as a mother than even the rugby players, just he was unknowledgeable and displaced his feelings as romance, as @Yerian said. I just find it really sad that Nagisa gets her first crush thrown away as Misae says (I just feel sorry for Nagisa in every route… I can’t wait for the Nagisa route).

It’s a real pity you don’t get Misae’s light orb or CGs until Tomoyo route, so it does feel incomplete for the time being. Maybe I’ll update this a bit once I get those.

I also think it was said in another route that Yoshino made his debut when he was 18, when Sunohara’s sister, who is 13 years old, was in Grade school.

If this is true: say Mei is 4 when she enters grade school, that’d make Yoshino 27 now. Since Yoshino is a senior while Misae is first year, she’d be two years younger than him (Misae is wearing a green first year insignia during the flashback. You also hear about a senior stealing the mic, which is implied to be Yoshino). So she should be about 25 now? Honestly, that’s not bad of an age gap. Maybe if Tomoya waited two or three years, it would seem less creepy…

[Naoki_Saten]

“Welcome back.”
“DROOOOOOOP KIIIIIIIIIIIIIICK!”
*BAM*

That’s what reading this route felt like. I was looking forward to remembering a nice short story and it hit me just a little bit harder than expected.

It was a short but beautiful story, built up on short but beautiful moments that you just gotta love:

• Misae talking about herself in third person, telling Tomoya to give up on her while “Spring Breeze -piano-” is playing in the background
• Yuki&Saki find out that Shima isn’t Shima: “Shima-kun! We’ll always be friends, okay?” dammit, Saki! Even though you’re just a spriteless side character! How dare you say such wonderful things? How dare you be so cool? >_<
• Young Misae finally stating her wish: (Music stops! Such a good direction!) “From now on… please love me, forever and ever.” FEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELS!

On a side note, Igarashi is a blockhead. Idiot. Imbecile. Insensitive. Sissy.

On a different side note, I have discovered a certain similarity between the Misae and the Kappei route which I will adress… when the time is right.

It’s kinda funny how even though Misae is the dominant type, she always gets caught up in Shima’s pace. On the other hand, she’s pretty strong. When she got rejected and Shima went to console her, it seemed more like she was the one consoling Shima instead. Speaking of that Scene, WHYYYYY is there no kiss CG? >_<

The rejection though, it was kind of a huge moment, wasn’t it? I mean, Misae was trying to console a sad boy and then she has suddenly been both rejected and confessed to at the same time.
So let’s have you guys think about a little something:
The day after getting rejected, Misae skipped school. Do you think she did so only due to the shock of rejection or was it more because she needed to sort out her feelings for Shima?

In the end, it’s probably a mix of both, but I wanna know which you believe to be the bigger reason. Personally, I think it’s the latter. After all, Misae didn’t seem all that sad when she talked to Shima.

[Yerian]

WHYYYYY is there no kiss CG? >_<

Because Hinoni

[Pepe]

WHYYYYY is there no kiss CG? >_<

siiiiigh I was thinking the exact same damn thing

[DMB]

I’m a bit more than halfway through with Misae’s route now. First of all, can I point out how short the route is? The baseball route was so long, especially with the baseball game at the end, that Misae’s route in comparison seems so quick.

I love Misae’s character in this route. In comparison to baseball, in which every characters were barely developed (except Sunohara of course), this path makes us discover and concentrate on one character, which is a liberation from the previous part in a sense. To explain myself, while I was reading baseball, I got the feeling that I was trapped in a stasis where nothing happened. The day passed, but everything was static and there was almost no character progression. Misae’s route in comparison is a breath of fresh air, and progression actually happened.

I was inquisitive about Misae’s character at first. Because of the setting in which Clannad takes place, I assumed that most routes would be about your character interacting with his school mates. It was a good surprise when I learned about all these other characters who weren’t students, but still got their route. Misae especially came as a good surprise. I didn’t know what to expect from her after the previews of I got throughout baseball, but she turned out to be a surprisingly fun and lovable character.
She gives off the image of an adult woman who is mature enough to run a dorm of athletes on testosterone, but when you start talking to her and getting intimate, you discover a naive little girl who is not certain how to deal with her situation, and Tomoya’s interactions with her are absolutely delightful.

I especially like the humor she brings to the story. If you read my comments about Sunohara, you’ll know I have a poor opinion of him because of his generic character archetype of “the clown”. Most comic scenes from the previous route felt forced by him, which was really destroying the experience for me. Misae, on the other hand is an example, in my opinion, of a well designed, amusing and witty character. She has a personality beyond that of a buffoon, but they manage to make scenes with her enjoyable and hilarious at moments without forcing the comedy onto the reader which was a delightful change from my previous reading.

I haven’t reach far enough at the moment to know if there is any romance in between her and Tomoya, but I highly doubt it. Therefore I will make a second post when i am done to talk about my observations and comments about the rest of the route.

[Parrexion]

Just finished the first part of Misae’s route now and I thought I should add some ideas and pictures I came up with during the route so far.

Just wanted to show you guys what Tomoya thinks about Misae and I agree with all of it. I almost feel sorry for Misae for having to put up with everything but that’s what makes her so nice of a person. I hear a lot of people complaining that her character is kinda bland and that there isn’t any character development during the route. I guess the character development should’ve already happened in the past as she’s older than the rest of the characters. And her personality isn’t the same as anyone else of the girls so I feel she complements the rest by being kinda “normal”.

Also something I’ve been thinking about and wandered if I’m the only one who thinks this.

This is what I feel most of the time when I play VN:s as the chest area is somehow in the right height to act as the background for the textbox.

[DMB]

I finished Misae’s route today, and I’m quite satisfied with the ending.
At first I did not expect any romantic feeling to develop between her and Tomoya, and was surprised by the evolution of the route. My opinion of Misae changed throughout my reading. At first, because of her short dialogues with Tomoya, I assumed that she was only a young girl caught with the responsibilities of an older woman, but learned that it was not the case. Misae is actually the inverse, a woman who still have some remnants of the girl she uses to be.
I must say I was charmed by her personality. At first she seems almost naive, following Tomoya’s advice about the dorm. However, I quickly came to the conclusion that she was really just a scarred young woman who does not know how to deal with the responsibilities that she forced onto herself. I believe that she decided to work there, in the eventuality that Shima comes back, in order to be there when he will return.

Her route is the first serious one I’ve read of Clannad and it’s a good omen for the other paths. I like how the story was written to start slowly and learn more and more about the main heroin’s of the route, until the big revelations near the end. It was a melancholic story, but she gave a message of hope near the end, with her never ending faith that her lover will come back one day. Her Flashback was also a really interesting moment in the route. I was glad to learn more about Misae’s past, she was since the beginning a character that appealed to me because of her design and because of the really vague knowledge we had of her. It made Misae a mysterious character and her route was for me something to look up to. I really hope to find out more about this wish granting device, introduced in this chapter. The revelation of Fujibayashi’s love was expected, but a heartwarming moment as well. I am really interested in the potential development of this relationship.
The end itself left me a bit confused. I am not certain what happened, did the cat show him the flashback? What happened between Tomoya and Misae for them to wake up in each other’s arms with their faces so close? and what about this message showing up through cherry tree leaves? I hope the future routes will give some answers to my inquiries.

I already started Tomoyo’s route today. Maybe her connection to Misae will give some answers about the later’s story.

[Yerian]

did the cat show him the flashback?

Yes, the cat is Shima, he showed Tomoya his past through the power of the light orb. In fact, its interesting that everyone keeps calling it “Misae’s Flashback”, when really it’s “Shima’s Flashback”.

[quote=“DMB, post:37, topic:1951”]
What happened between Tomoya and Misae for them to wake up in each other’s arms with their faces so close?
[/quote]Probably fell over while asleep… or the cat used its super strength to push them together :yukitgla:

and what about this message showing up through cherry tree leaves?

I dont remember what you’re referring to, but cherry blossoms usually signify new beginnings. Probably some kind of symbolism of the such.

[HeliosAlpha]

I dont remember what you’re referring to, but cherry blossoms usually signify new beginnings. Probably some kind of symbolism of the such.

Probably referring to the bit at the end where Shima says like, “Master, my new master isn’t you, but she’s really nice and I want to be with her forever.”

[Parrexion]

I hope I’m not to late to add a keypoint to the podcast but I was listening to the first episode and at the end you started to talk about Tomoya’s family situation and I felt that it should have some relevance for this route.
To state why you guys in the pocast was saying:
The main theme of CLANNAD is families and there different shapes and compositions. Tomoya barley has any family at all, only Sunohara.

This can be very relevant when talking about Tomoya’s relationship with Misae so I thought it would be interesting with a key point regarding that matter.
In what ways do you think Tomoya’s current family situation influences his feelings for Misae. Is she the closest thing to a mother he has that makes him like her in the end or is it the reason she cares and listens to him or something like that which makes him fall in love with her.

Just gonna have to finish the last part of the Shima story so I can give my final verdict of the route.

btw, where can you find the schedule for the podcast?

[Aspirety]

btw, where can you find the schedule for the podcast?

For everything you need for the Bookclub, check the Bookclub page. There’s a link on the bottom.

[Bacon41]

This was the not-a-main-girl arc that I remembered the best from my previous playthrough. I enjoyed it then, and I think I enjoyed it even more this time. It’s by no means perfect, but it does what it needs to do, and it does it quite well.

Personally, I felt that this was a really great arc to do first (aside from the common route/baseball, of course). Not only is it short and easy to get through, but it does a pretty good job of spelling out the rules of this world. Not just what the orbs of light do, but the very fact that this is a world with a hint of magic. Wishes can be granted, cats can become people, and memories can be shared. Knowing that helps frame the rest of the arcs.

And no CGs

Yeah, that was really disappointing. I would have expected at least 1, you know?

a woman that’s [CRASH!] years old

I know this was during the baseball route, but man, I laughed so hard when that happened!

“I sure want to see this cat with two scenes get developed”

-Bacon41

[Naoki_Saten]

There are some contradictions in Misae’s character that make her more interesting and pretty funny.
She’s kind and loves taking care of people. But she tends to express that goodwill through violence. She’s pretty sharp when it comes to matters of love, much more than she gives herself credit for. She’s good at giving people advice even though she’s not all that experienced, either. Though for someone who can tell how other people feel, she’s kinda tactless. I mean “The girl you like is sad? It’s your chance!” or “You better give up on Okazaki as well”? Pretty harsh. I liked how Nagisa started defending Tomoya when she was told to give up on him ^^

What kinda bothers me is that the route ended on a bittersweet note, but looking at Misae-san’s past from the side, it seems rather depressing. She was in love but it was unrequited. She fell in love again, but the guy disappeared soon after. She’s still waiting for him after over 5 years. And now, she’s in that cliché situation of a single woman who owns a cat.

I’m also not sure if it’s a good or a bad thing that in this route, Tomoya didn’t play an important role. He merely reminded Misae-san of Shima by saying the same things.
“The ‘me of right now’ fell in love with the ‘Misae-san of right now.’”
“I like things like how you scold… how you worry… I even love the fact that you smell nice when you grab my neck. And also because you’re beautiful, Misae-san.”
EDIT: What I’m getting at is: Unless Tomoya was really getting close to Misae-san because he didn’t have a mother, anyone else could’ve taken his place in this route. Except Sunohara. Sunohara is too obvious about his desire for boobs.

[Yerian]

[quote=“Naoki_Saten, post:43, topic:1951”]
But she tends to express that goodwill through violence.
[/quote]Interesting point. While we certainly see that with Shima in her highschool days, I think thats changed by the time she becomes dorm mother. Sure, we see her old habits come back with the rugby players and Sunohara, but I really dont think she’d lay a finger on anyone who wasnt messing with/bothering her.
She really has matured; she seems like the kind of person that has grown mentally old a lot faster than physically. (There’s your character development, Kanon)

[quote=“Naoki_Saten, post:43, topic:1951”]
Unless Tomoya was really getting close to Misae-san because he didn’t have a mother, anyone else could’ve taken his place in this route.
[/quote]I disagree, 1) because I think your “unless” is a very good reason, but also2) because I believe Tomoya is a very special kind of person. The kind of person who is able to help all the people he does. He needs to have mutual support with somebody.

A random rugby player who went to Misae for advice might have been able to even remind her of those things in the same way Tomoya did. But the crucial point is, its not Misae that causes this flashback to be shown. Its the cat. And the cat showed Tomoya this for a reason.

Oh and also 3) because Tomoya’s probably the only person who can help both Misae and Tomoyo, which we will see later on.

[Bizkitdoh]

This route is just brilliant. Not only is it a great story, it’s so… CLANNAD. More on this in time, but man this route is so perfect to read early because of a not-so-exclusive but oh-so-cool amount of pieces that overlap and tie into other parts of CLANNAD’s really nice ‘small world’ and really well developed characters. It also showcases some flat out outstanding lessons or maybe even regrets to those who are a bit older and at about Misae’s power level to think about. This route, me being 22 and quickly getting farther and farther from my school memories get such an immense amount of romantic nostalgia and it hits like a freight train.

In such a short span of time such a meaningful scenario is presented that makes you appreciate it even without knowing what it means to CLANNAD as a whole- And maybe even to some who would say it has no meaning in the end. It’s just flat out good. 10/10.

Also maybe I haven’t seen it in a while but the anime does a shit job of presenting what this character has. Shame, but I know that it didn’t give me anywhere near as much of an attachment as this did. Tomoya’s attachment added quite a lot and I really like how both he and Shima act about it- I can really respect them both because I agree with them. Tomoya just being a bit less innocent.

[HeliosAlpha]

What kinda bothers me is that the route ended on a bittersweet note, but looking at Misae-san’s past from the side, it seems rather depressing. She was in love but it was unrequited. She fell in love again, but the guy disappeared soon after. She’s still waiting for him after over 5 years. And now, she’s in that cliché situation of a single woman who owns a cat.

Depressing is one way of looking at it. I think that life fits her though. And I don’t mean that she doesn’t deserve to be loved or anything. Like, she spends her time taking care of the dorm. She’s clearly good at that, and she doesn’t really show an intention to switch jobs despite complaining a lot. I just thought that’s how she chose to live her life and the students are the people she chose to spend it with. It might be a bit of a stretch but you could call that a family. People can find comfort in many different ways.