Tomoyo After - Tomoya Arc

Key Discussion
#41

I think we’ll agree to disagree here. My saying is that Tomoyo is totally capable of that. But even if she isn’t, that doesn’t mean that Tomoya shouldn’t have told her anyway. It would have served to advance a topic explored later on in the VN: (Tomo Arc spoiler) Tomoyo’s extreme stubbornness and inability to rationally look at the consequences of any action. It’s like saying that Tomoya should have given up with the idea of building the school and hide it from everyone because Tomoyo wouldn’t have accepted it.

Growing up ad maturing also implies dealing with problems head on, not just avoiding them, which is what Tomoya keeps doing (his father, for instance). So Tomoya telling her and convincing her not to do something (minor Takafumi Arc spoiler) would have worked similarly to how he convinces Takafumi to tell him what happened in his past.

So the point I want to make in this post is that following that course of action, it wouldn’t work for them, but after some struggles, they would have learned more and overcome some of their flaws that you mentioned.

Well, Takafumi and Tomoyo are siblings. Kanako is Takafumi’s ex girlfriend, Tomoya is Tomoyo’s boyfriend and Tomo belongs to the Sakagami’s family. So I guess it would surprise me if it was otherwise. :stuck_out_tongue:

Seriously though, the chemistry they had was great.

^ This. This arc’s purpose was to cement Tomoya’s personality and to give a certain background about why he would do some of the things he does later on.

Yeah, at this point I think that we are going to hard on Tomoya. He did what he thought that was correct. Perhaps it wasn’t the best course of action, but even then, he did it with the best of his intentions. He didn’t do it out of pure selfishness, since he kept on repeating to himself that he had to protect his family, specially Tomo. In fact, he thought that the mysterious guy behind Tomo was affiliated to the thugs, so fighting the thugs was a way to stop the mysterious guy, or at least that’s what he thought.

Well, talking about cheap, not many people made a huge remark about the mysterious guy. His existence looks like a cheap plot device necessary to give Tomoya a reason to consider doing the fighting. However, if you look closely, you can even try to extract some hidden message from there. It might be a way of saying that sometimes we worry way too much about things and become paranoid. Sometimes, we should relax a bit since we tend to lives way too stressed.

Anyway, what are your thoughts about this mysterious guy? Cheap plot device or hidden meaning?

#42

Looks like most of what I wanted to say has been said now, but I’d like to add something that annoyed the heck out of me in this arc. You see, I believe that the most important part of being in a relationship is proper communication. But the whole conflict ends in a good note by hiding stuff from your girlfriend and doing things on your own, and while the resolution seemed to prove how dumb it was to do that, the fact that letting the girlfriend know the situation will trigger a bad end just rubbed me off the wrong way.

Of course I’d know that this isn’t the point of the route, but I still hold on to this thought.

On a side note, the prologue was amusing until it became too repetitive, the gags that followed are so darn memorable, Takafumi was cool, Tomo is kinda cute, Kanako was a bit annoying at first until she solidified her position as best girl after this route (she’s selling herself too short man), while the main couple is still unremarkable for now.

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#43

I was wondering about the significance of the mysterious man that kept stalking Tomo as Tomoyo was taking her to school. From what I read, he was trying to get his own daughter to play with Tomo at the park where Tomo’s mother had resided before she had left Tomo all alone. Tomoya might have been paranoid since he thought the mysterious man was associated with the thugs at the dry river bed, but I want to think that he may have been overwhelming himself with so many possibilities running through his mind that he might fail in protecting Tomo and Tomoyo with someone trying to get close to them.

I think there was a deep meaning to this because it shows how Tomoya has to become strong and as he sees the man with his daughter playing with Tomo, he needs to take things slowly and not exert his mind with worries he is not able to control. There are sometimes things we are not able to control ourselves and as you mentioned we tend to stress our lives out with preoccupied thoughts and worries that can overly consume us.

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#44

So, now I’m also done with the Tomoya arc.

Most things have indeed been already said. The Prologue was pretty weak, although still endurable and better than starting the story on some unnecessary H-scenes, at least for me. There were definitely some funny moments, like Tomoya’s “Gyaiagreiiiiiibodododooooo!!”.

The part that was called Common by most was a nice introduction to the characters, and I agree with you guys that they have great chemistry. Also, it seems that this VN is going to explore dysfunctional or outright broken families among other things. My initial impression of Tomo’s mother is actually quite different from Tomoya’s and Tomoyo’s. I think she doesn’t think that she’s able to take proper care of Tomo, probably doesn’t get enough support from familiy or friends and has such resigned in that fact. That she still cares for Tomo is already seen in her request of getting Photos of her. While that is of course sad, it is basically more or less the same thing as giving your child to adoption, something that I find way better than abandoning your child outrite.
Something else from that part:

One of those comments is the following: “Also, the families that do stay together forever grow cold.”
Having grown up in a divorced family since the age of 3 months I have no first hand experience of a couple that stays together that long, but from hearsay there definitely is a change after some time. It is usually up to the couple to always find new things in their partner, to prevent a true growing cold. There are going to be changes, but that is life. My upcoming is also a reason why this story definitely intrigues me, if my assumption on themes is correct.

And then we have the Tomoya arc proper. I also see those fights as the means for Tomoya’s selfconfidence to grow here. That didn’t really happen yet, after all. That he needs that is also seen during his work, where he said something along the lines of “Being needed by others gives me fulfillment in life.” What he still doesn’t quite know for himself is if he is someone Tomoyo can depend on.

During that part, that happened for me as well.

I am now definitely interested on how this story continues, so the Takafumi arc is next, right?

EDIT: Also, just that I understand the time at which this plays correctly, Those fights start on the 14th of July and Tomoya fights one dude per day. There are a lot of people to fight, so many in fact that Tomoya can’t really count them. The Takafumi arc starts at the 21st of July. By that time, Tomoya can’t already be over with that, so I guess I have to imagine that those fights basically happen each evening but we as readers saw all of that now for the sake of keeping the arc together. Because it neither can be that there were only like 6 dudes and Tomoya’s done by July 21st, nor can it be that a whole year has passed. Am I correct?

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#45

Well, he never really defeated everybody. After defeating about 6 dudes, the entire gang decided it was enough and let him win. I guess that’s kind of what cheapened the effect for me :x

#46

Ohh! Well, that indeed cheapens the whole thing. Although I guess they are right in saying he is the most determined and would fight until he’s dead. And he’d have died an utter pointless death, if it would have come that far…
I don’t know how to feel about that.

#47

Just finished this part of TA. I didn’t take notes, so I’ll just talk about this as thoughts come to me.

Let’s start with the prologue. I had little idea what to expect with Tomoyo After, although I thought it made sense for the story to start with placing Tomoyo in every conceivable fetish possible for her. Fortunately, it seems like they did a good job writing around where the sex scene in the original used to be, although TomoyaKotori’s newfound pervertedness doesn’t help things. Still, this story feels like it could stand alone from CLANNAD so far, and that’s a big plus.

The Tomoya Arc seems to focus a lot on comedy and establishing the characters before anything else. For those who’ve read CLANNAD previously, there’s not a lot new to Kotori or Tomoyo. If anything, Tomoya is pretty much going through some of the same motions he went through in After Story, and Tomoyo is pretty much there to keep his childish behavior in check. That aside, it’s the newer characters - Takafumi, Kanako and Tomo - that makes Tomoyo After what it is.

Takafumi was mentioned and even seen at one point in Tomoyo’s route in CLANNAD, but we didn’t get much from him besides the fact that he really didn’t want his family to split apart, which caused him to throw himself in traffic. Now that he’s back to health, he’s a full-on computer nerd who hangs around Kotori’s place in the evenings, although he hasn’t forgotten how much his family means to him. This leads him to bring Tomo, his illegitimate half-sister, to Kotori’s place for him to take care of.

Tomo is an adorable little loli girl who, despite her naivete to most things, knows enough about relationships to understand that fighting is never good, and doesn’t want what happened to her mother to happen to her new ‘mama and papa’. Tomoyo takes her in immediately following Takafumi’s advice, and the three of them become a sort of dysfunctional family.

Then a piece of Takafumi’s tragic past appears in the form of Kanako. Her voice and mannerisms felt similar to Haruka from Little Busters at first, but it quickly becomes obvious that her actions are more mean-spirited in nature. Apparently she’s under the belief that true love doesn’t really exist, because her family’s in a terrible situation and Takafumi refuses to acknowledge her after her dad died. It’ll be interesting to see how Kotori proves her wrong, if it ever happens.

Anyway, the actual plot of the Tomoya Arc involves Kotori street fighting to keep Tomoyo and Tomo safe, despite the chronic injuries he receives every night as a result of the fights. It’s pretty formulaic until Kanako starts training him in self-defense, and then the fights go by quickly. I do feel that this arc spoke a lot about how determined Kotori is, but little else is accomplished for any of the other characters. I think it’s a harmless first start, and it does make me want to read more, so I’m fairly impressed.

I can only hope it gets better from here… :smiley:

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#48

For some reason I enjoyed the scenes where Tomoya was working, learning new skills and just being useful and nice to people. It reminds me of Yukito doing a similar job in AIR, and how I enjoyed just random interactions with random people sometimes. It’s a feel-good part I suppose?

In general I really like how this isn’t just another vn that has a school setting. It’s a fresh experience, and it’s nice for it to not have to be a relatable setting that the reader can partially self-insert into, which is certainly an unfortunately common aspect to a lot of visual novels and anime. Also it’s nice to have more stories that are about life actually in a relationship.

Reiterating what @Aspirety said, the title screen music is really amazing. Not sure if it’ll become my favourite once I finish it, I’m still sometimes changing my mind on what my favourite is :stuck_out_tongue:. A bunch of the soundtrack is pretty great too. I really like how you can tell how Key’s music has progressed, this definitely feels inbetween Clannad and Little Busters, with the types of synths and instruments they use. This also gives it it’s own charm, but then still feels kinda Clannad-y in a way.

Also I like Takafumi more than I thought I would, he just seems like a cool guy to me. Looking forwards to him having more development.

Also getting into reading this easier than I thought. Definitely gonna be able to read on time/ahead.

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#49

IMHO, he was a cheap plot device. I’ll give props for him being a character who’s existence was referenced before this arc started, but there isn’t a compelling reason for him to creepily watch Tomo from afar. He’d probably earn Tomoyo’s favor somewhat if he flat-out explained who he was. Had he done that. Tomoya probably wouldn’t have decided to fight those thugs who he assumed were dangerous to Tomo’s welfare. I’d understand it a bit more if he’d never had children, and he was awkward about approaching a young girl at her kindergarten, but this dude has a daughter Tomo’s age. The way he exhibits his indecision is too awkward for someone who’s dealt with children on such a personal level.

@Pepe I think we have an irreconcilable difference in philosophy here. If I’m understanding you correctly, you believe self-actualization is healthy on its own merits. While I 100% agree that it’s necessary for maturity and growth, self-worth should come about through someone taking tangible steps to become more mature or responsible, or at the very least in a way that’s not callous and potentially destructive. It’d be one thing if Tomoyo was the only one at risk, and he KNOWS she could take care of this herself, but as far as he knows, a little girl is in danger. Tomoya would NEVER be so irresponsible as to disregard that, just so he can gain some self-worth points. He WOULD tell Tomoyo because this is a really important issue, and she would be a valuable asset in defending her. Tomoya is too conscientious of causing pain to other people to pull this kind of stunt.

In the first place, though, I disagree with your assumption that Tomoya is a short-term thinker. It’s long-term thinking (Clannad Tomoyo arc spoilers) that made him decide that being with Tomoyo would just tie her down. And even though you say he’s totally giving up on school, this would be FAR from the first time a character has done something they’d previously given up on in the Clannad verse. Heck, even IN THIS GAME (Takafumi arc spoilers) Takafumi takes up running again in order to resolve unfinished business . (Numerous Clannad and After Story spoilers) Yoshino takes up singing again, Sanae takes up teaching, even after giving up on her more lucrative career, Kouko decides to have her wedding, even though initially she would only do it if her younger sister recovered. Also, Tomoya himself who had given up on understanding, much less reconciling, with his father finds the will to do both in After Story, the final cause of which was also an interaction with another character. Oh, and let’s not forget him overcoming his despair and taking up being a family man again, something he hadn’t thought of doing in five years. Now, yes, each of these characters had a catalyst that spurred on their change, but Tomoya has a very obvious one here: TOMOYO. For her, Tomoya WOULD go against his comfort zone, even if that means taking school seriously again. He considers this at several points early in the VN, but his general lack of passion for life (and later plot events) keeps him from following through on it (except on Tomoyo’s and to a certain extent on Ryou’s route). Heck, he was doing this in her route before their break-up and actually had to work hard to go back into apathy mode when he pushed her away. Plus, it would shine light on a side of Tomoya we don’t see much of and see how fast he learns things. Just because its outside of his comfort zone does not mean it is beyond his reach.

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#50

Honestly, I was not gonna read TA again since I read it only like 6 months ago but I kinda forgot a lot of things. I only really ended up reading because I got sick and listened threw down my key ost list to help me sleep and TA ost stood out to be so damn good. So anyways I’ll just briefly write down my thoughts. Most of my thoughts have already been said though.

First, I really love the character dynamic here. I think the comedy here is pretty solid, what with everyone dealing with Kanako’s bullshit and stuff. Don’t get me wrong though, I think Kanako is actually my favorite character in the entire story.

Second, Kanako speaks truth. While she does seem really pessimistic about this true everlasting love thing, it’s interesting to point out that (Full game spoilers) she asked Tomoyo something along the lines of, “Will your true love last even if Tomoya loses his memory?” (Dat foreshadow)

Welp, I don’t think my thoughts were organized at all… I think I’ll have more to say in the next arc.

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Tomoyo After - After Arc Discussion
#51

@cjlim2007 (Endgame spoilers) It’s great for them to foreshadow After arc even before the more obvious stuff happens to build up to its events, but I wonder if some of Kanako’s lines are a bit too on the nose…

#52

https://kazamatsuri.org/tomoyo-after-bookclub-podcast-1-tomoya-arc/ Podcast up! Thanks for the great discussion guys!

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#53

I really enjoyed myself reading this.

The beginning with the costumes, while you could say it was somewhat repetitive/predictable, I think it’s just what makes the comedy even better (did you ever get tired of Akio running after Sanae? Same thing here). I haven’t read the adult version (and don’t think I will), but if this is a replacement for that content then I’m glad we got it.

I really felt Takafumi had that “bro” feeling with Tomoya, specially when he kidnapped a girl (?), and Tomoya thought he needed to cover him. And seriously, you’re a bro if you agree to help someone to achieve his lewd objectives and receive a kick on the face for that :joy:

Tomo’s interaction with her new parents was surprisingly quick, just like a chick that just came out of an egg and started saying mama to the first thing that came to view, but that just shows how lively and innocent she is, not being scared of being with new people. However she was very scared of loosing them, acting like a re-conciliator, which I found very cute.
(But I didn’t find cute that Tomoyo would kiss her in the lips… that’s just weird).

The whole thing with the street-fights was just painfully redundant. I liked how determined Tomoya was to protect his family, but all of it was just unnecessary and more like a plot device. (And the gang was surprisingly honorable and fair… Do those kind of gangs really exist in the real world?).

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What an insolence. At this moment, Tomoya should seriously yell at them to never show their faces ever again, and never get close to him or his family. But nah he’s too beat up for that.

Overall, this arc is a great start. Very entertaining and fun, and also inspiring. It’s might not follow the most reasonable outcome always, but neither does life.

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#54

I finally got around to marathoning the game, but most of my thoughts have already been said, at least for this route so I’ll keep this short. I mostly agree with Mogaoscar and DangoDaikazoku on this one.

Overall this was a decent route that was fun enough to read but the serious moments don’t hold up well. Tomoya fighting the baddies is just unnecessary and childishly prideful. Kanako was a bitch, too. But the lighthearted parts of the route–messing around with Takafumi and Tomo–were great and saved the first part of the game.

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#55

Arete - That sums it up well for me too, I agree with your points except I found Kanako quite entertaining and it was interesting that later it was she who got the villagers motivated rather than - as we might predict - Tomoya . I could have done happily without the extended fights section and wish they could have found another way to make the point.

I enjoyed the day-to-day at work scenes although they are not so different in that from the main After Story - these feel realistic in how difficult it can be to build your knowledge and confidence when you start working and you need to prove your worth, and the satisfaction of adapting your skills to solve a new problem on your own.

BTW I played the “clean” Steam version and yes the prologue just feels off although we do get the funnies as Takafumi interrupts it’s not that effective.

Now I need an ice cream…

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#56

Hello everyone, I know this is a long dead post, but I have played the original 18+ version of Tomoyo After, and I am missing 2 scenes. Scene 4 and Scene 9 are my missing ones, other than that, if I win, then I will 100% the game.

#57

Slowly working my way through these forums but I figured I should start at the first arc for Tomoyo After. Also, apologies for the consistent use of spoiler tags, I just want to be very safe when it comes to spoilers, but as I use these forums I’m hoping to have a better understanding of when to use them.

I actually found the transition from Clannad - Tomoyos route, to Tomoyo After to be quite jarring, considering the differences in art style for all the characters, and differences in personality.

However, what brought me into this world was the somewhat realistic nature of it. By that I mean, remember in Clannad how Tomoya was questioning what his future was going to be like, and constantly disparaging himself, in comparison to Tomoyo who was expected to go onto great things?

Well, I love the fact we see this future now, and see Tomoya really in his own feet now, enjoying his work and gaining some form of self confidence, and just seeing how the relationship between Tomoya and Tomoyo has developed. I’d argue that the 18+ version (which I didn’t play, got the, I think, “Memorial Edition” off steam (?)) was appropriate given their relationship would have evolved to be sexual.

Although, I haven’t actually seen the scenes but I’m assuming they would be romantic (?). Either way, I just enjoyed how their relationship has developed where they are much more affectionate with each other, and Tomoyo tries to satisfy Tomoya’s desires.

Regarding the introduction of Takafumi, I enjoy the dynamic between him and Tomoyo and Tomoya. I can feel the love between these characters, despite the number of jokes about Takafumi walking into the room. I enjoy this because it just makes Tomoya look as though there are more people who admire him for who he is, when compared to Clannad.

For the story itself, I’m a bit torn on it. I feel it’s a bit ridiculous for Tomoya to constantly be fighting those bullies where, going off Clannad, Tomoyo could just destroy them instantly. However, I am under the impression Tomoya did this to prove his own worth, despite in game him stating that he did so so Tomoyo can protect Tomo. I like this dynamic but I felt the fighting itself may be a bit too contrived. I don’t want to delve too more into this, given this relates to the last arc…

That’s about everything I had to say, I’ll definitely edit my post to talk about Tomo and Kanako.

Thanks for reading my post! I’m just trying to process everything, seeing as I finished Tomoyo After yesterday, and gathering my thoughts.

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#58

I read Tomoyo after a few months ago through youtube videos and because I don’t really like fight scenes in VN, I skipped many Tomoya’s fight scenes so I don’t remember them well. Now that I have bought the game on Steam I will tell you my thoughts about Tomoya’s arc once I would have finished reading Clannad .
Edit :
Like others said the fight scenes could have been removed and we could have seen Tomoya trying to get good grades but they were pretty intense and I think they were important to show the good sides of Kanako and for the ending as well. What I like about it it that this arc feels really realistic like Tomoyo’s route in Clannad, because we all do mistakes and life isn’t always how we want it to be, which is proved at the end of the arc when Tomoya understood that Tomo wasn’t in danger and he could have avoided the fights. But he became stronger and the scene where he talks with Tomoyo truly is wonderful. :amorous:

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