Little Busters! - Yuiko Kurugaya Route & Character Discussion

I was actually replaying parts of Kurugaya’s route the past two days (Mio and Rin’s routes aren’t holding my attention very well) and towards the end of the route when Riki starts realizing it is a dream and tries to stay up until June 21st to force the loop forward, he eats one of two instant noodle packages before falling asleep right after midnight. When he wakes up, the other pack of noodles is still gone, and he states the world is “imperfect.” You also see this when even though it is technically June 20th, what Riki says to Masato, Kyouske, etc. will either give him the “canned” response (if he mentions he’s going to see Kurugaya and they are surprised) or if he tells them to leave him alone, which they do without questioning it. It is a dream world of many constants and slight variations, all centered around what Riki does or doesn’t do or say.

The reason I went back was because I wasn’t quite clear on when the “loop” begins; Kurugaya/Riki imply it started after Riki realizes he loved her. However, when Riki is sick and she visits him, she pauses when Riki tells her it is partially her fault, and she appears momentarily confused but rolls past it without him noticing, which can possibly mean the loop has already started (and Riki remembers this later after discovering the notebook). It’s important to note that at this point, he only admits that he might like her/thinks she is cool, everyone else says they think he’s fallen for her. So he hasn’t realized his feelings himself, so I think it would be a stretch to say he loves her yet, yet it appears the “loop” (or more specifically the memory loss, and therefore the dream world, but maybe not the time loop) is already in effect. The only thing that contradicts slightly is that she requests that he never goes out in the rain again once they confess to each other. My only guess is that the memory loss at this point is much more subtle, and him mentioning it the first time catches her off guard, triggers her memory, and then she fully forgets at a later date.

Quick Timeline (feel free to let me know if I got something wrong):

Sunday, June 17th - Riki asks her on a date to the cafe, she suggest they go the next day
Monday, June 18th - They go on the date, run back to school in the rain, Riki gets sick
Tuesday, June 19th - Riki stays in the dorm, visited by Kurugaya during math, she doesn’t (appear) to remember their date

Time Loop officially begins, days are no longer explicitly mentioned as they were before
First June 20th - Riki gives her a gift from one of the three guys
Second June 20th - Fireworks scene. All other Busters still have their memories at this point.
Third June 20th - First confession scene/rejection
Fourth June 20th - Riki persists, asks her for an answer in broadcast room again, she later approaches him by the vending machine/tea table area and agrees to go out
Fifth June 20th and beyond - Everyone else forgets he and Kurugaya are a couple by this point, dream world is fully realized

This would imply neither of them really fall in love until at least the first June 20th, therefore the time part of the loop shouldn’t have started (although it appears memory loss has already happened). I suppose that implies that she did have feelings beforehand, but maybe didn’t notice/think about it until then (believeable in her case), or what I think is more likely, which is that neither of them really understand the “rules” of the dream world. It also hard to tell because the words “like” and “love” are used somewhat interchangeably (don’t know how else to describe it, maybe something lost in translation from Japanese to English).

The bigger mindfuck for me (which I’m sure I’ll mention whenever I get around to making a full post) is that she writes down that she and Riki are going out and believes it every time (despite her reservations/rejection to going out in the first place, her own view of herself as a person/friend/romantic partner, etc.). The fact that her feelings remain constant throughout might be the most interesting bit for me.

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Holy shit this was worse than I remember and I already thought this was one of the worst routes in Key’s entire repertoire.

Kurugaya, Tits or some shit

I hate this character.
People who were there for the Clannad Bookclub can just copy paste my complaints for Tomoyo because a lot of that shit is copy pasted onto Kurugaya, I hate how she acts smug about her ‘perfection’, I hate how the writing forces in your face how amazing she is with every character sucking up to her, they try to say ‘but she doesn’t understand emotion’ as a flaw which is both a dubious claim to begin with and no nearly enough to balance out the rest of this shit.
She is funny with her juvenile humour and that is all I can say in praise. As far as I’m concerned, Kud is a significantly deeper and more enjoyable character to watch, and I JUST got done talking shit about HER in her thread.

So with that out of the way, understanding my mindset for this character is ‘active dislike’, bear with me as I simply cannot stop myself from being less lenient with the route.

So the whole bullying part at the start is, while not bad, infuriating in it’s entirety because not telling her is fucking dumb, I understand it can’t happen if you tell her, but that doesn’t mean I agree with it. And the best part of it all? It’s E N T I R E L Y pointless, none of those girls return in the route, it basically doesn’t even get referenced again, it doesn’t even do much for their budding relationship, it’s padding and garbage that’s primary goal seems to be to make Kurugaya spout the actual worst line in the VN. “Try saying that again in one of the seven languages I speak”, I’m supposed to be amazed by how cool and smart she is when I say that, frankly it sounds like the kind of shit you’d put in a navy seal copypasta meme, it’s idiotic.

But hey, the route has a good middle, it’s the part where Kurugaya is barely involved. Probably not a coincidence(cuz she’s trash and all that), I think this is the route with the most boys screentime, Operation Love Love Hunters, Operation LoliLoli Hunters, Operation Fireworks. All of this is good shit, it’s my boys dicking around and being buddies.

At least after the boys hijack the route, Kurugaya does get some nice scenes, she learns to feel emotions thanks to Riki no Diki and it that would have been a perfectly fine ending.

And then fucking time starts looping.
Honestly I zoned out, I was speedreading, this part, in addition to coming out of nowhere and not making sense, is so boring. I’m sure there is some symbolism or some shit with the time loop but you know what? I don’t care. I don’t care about Kurugaya, I don’t see how this adds to the route, I don’t see what this has to do with Kurugaya, hey look at that, a consistant fucking problem with Kurugaya’s route is that barely any of this shit actually has anything to do with Kurugaya. And that’s really bad, it’s HER ROUTE.

In conclusion, I honestly wouldn’t be surprised if I’d find Kud Wafter better than this route, this could not be any further away from my tastes if it tried.

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That is a point in Kurugaya’s character that there’s never really… elaboration on that.

I mean, her wanting to get involved with the Little Busters to find out what fuels their fun lives is an emotion in the first place so the point is very moot, and since a lot of the route is focused on the “present” any potential depth as to what makes her that way is utterly lost. It would’ve been nice to see an actual redemption of that in her post-Refrain ending than what we got.

You guys are taking it pretty literally. She was a smart girl who never got close to anybody. Her “I don’t understand emotion” thing is her way of saying “I’ve never known anyone as a friend” though it is especially relevant as a comment on her tendency of watching the Litbus crew (who are renowned in the school for being loud and random.) She doesn’t get friendship or the Litbus crew, but she wants to.
Naturally this problem is solved once she joins the gang at the start of the story. Yuiko’s problems are not the focus of the route, nor was that the intention. Instead they are framed as a long-gong event. The opening portion of the route is a blatant “she’s got everything now, and she wants to keep it that way.”

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My thoughts. Possible spoilers.

Summary

It seems to me that the reason Kurugaya doesn’t understand emotion is because she’s never felt stimulated by anything. There’s a medical condition called alexithymia that is used to describe people with an inability to express emotion and empathize with others, and Kurugaya possesses many symptoms of it (I recommended reading up on it). Add on her brilliant analytical mind and you have an individual that perfectly acts out her role as a student without being distracted by emotion, but is simultaneously bewildered and made curious of social relations.

Some of the traits of people with alexthymia include excessively logical reasoning, social detachment, lack of drive or investment, the occasional outburst that bewilders even the person, and inability to distinguish between sexual arousal and actual feelings. These fit Kurugaya to a T.

Kurugaya knows how talented she is and doesn’t hesitate to show off, especially to people she looks down on. This can be seen as a form of intimidation, but in all known cases, she wasn’t the one that instigated anything. She just sees herself as solving a problem and preserving her pride as a person through self-defense.

She definitely possesses emotions, she just can’t display them as naturally as others can. She enjoys the antics of the Busters, because they’re a divergence from the mundane life she’s used to; as a result, she starts truly enjoying school life for the first time. And in her route, she’s forced to give up on her emotions by erasing her own memories for the greater good.
If she didn’t, the world wouldn’t have been able to reset itself properly.

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Yeah, the problem is that what would’ve been nice is precisely expanding upon that instead of her route basically saying “she couldn’t feel emotions but Riki’s love changed her” and then leave it at that like the rest of her life didn’t exactly matter before she started dating Riki.

I don’t like stories that have a conclusion solely reliant on a romantic basis because it does hardly anything to benefit the character should you remove the romantic element of it. :yahaha:

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You say that, but then you write a very literal response.

Which is a blatant desire to feel.

I’d say there’s a difference between making friends and having friends. She may have made friends, but she doesn’t appear to have felt friendship (or at least the friendship she desires) pre-busters.

How are those different problems? A lack of understanding comes from lack of exposure. She didn’t understand people because she hadn’t been close to people.

I both question Haruka’s “friendship” and your effective comparison between a group of friends and a singular friend. Haruka herself isn’t known for being sincere or open, and her as a single entity is hardly anything compared to the entire Busters gang and all its excitement.

But it wasn’t the focus of her character. It was her backstory, something that had almost entirely passed. It was only brought up because it was still relevant to her relationship with the busters (why she joined and treasured them) and for her relationship with Riki. It was deemed a requirement by the writers to establish who she is, but it isn’t meant to be anything big or important imo. Heck, the entire gimmick of the route is that Yuiko either solves or deals with her own problems just fine, but struggles when other people are dragged into her messes.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen that in the route, but it’s certainly an interesting interpretation…

That’s literally how I’d describe Key and VNs as a generic whole. Exactly what I look for in a VN.

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I’m starting to find it more amusing than anything how you seem to have this problem with exactly the characters I relate to the most =P

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Funnily enough I think, out of all the girls, Yuiko is the one I’d call most realistic. Obviously that isn’t an objective truth, and I’m certain there’s plenty of people like the other heroines, but I’ve met a fair few Yuikos in my life.
Don’t think I’ve ever seen a Tomoyo though. That girl is troped up from here to Rokkenjima.

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Sorry for another ridiculously long post, but I really enjoyed this route, and have been absolutely itching to talk about it. This one should cover basically all the big points I wanted to get into, and (hopefully) I’ll get better at being more concise soon. :yahaha:

Considering she opens the bullying thing with the super arrogant languages comment and calling them a pack of monkeys, I’d say she isn’t exactly helping matters heal easily. I do agree with you partially though, as the whole situation is exactly why she grows from that point on. Similarly, it struck me that she views defending herself as a normal response because she has the ability to do so, but not the interest. I don’t believe she gives a shit at all about her image, she just wants it to stop by any means necessary because she has the power to stop it. She only cares because Riki is involved, and probably feels like she should protect him because he is dealing with it for her and without her. She realizes they both care about each other as people and Boom! Likely the first real connection she has ever had to another person is established.

Bit of an aside, but I did want to dig into her character a bit. Virtually everything she does is based around how she thinks she is supposed to act/what other people might find likable. Her cluelessness isn’t limited just to reading other people, but to reading situations and herself as well. The cafe date is the best example: one minute she wants to jump into puddles solely because it might be fun, and the next she doesn’t even know how she should think when alone with a boy. This is also likely why she acts so flirty around him; she assumes that Riki is interested in her in a sexual way, but not in a personal/platonic way. Even her pervy jokes and pranks with the other Busters are likely done because she probably assumes that kind of teasing would be normal in a group of friends or people you are close with.

I actually thought that scene in Haruka’s route explaining the “Anego” thing perfectly shows why she never has had any “real” friends: she purposefully puts distance between herself and Haruka. The reasoning is very clinical and makes sense is a twisted sort of way, but also very in line with Kurugaya’s character. Throughout the common, the interaction between Kurugaya and Haruka hints at a friendship, but really it isn’t much more than past familiarity. I wouldn’t call them friends at all after seeing Haruka’s route. My own take is very similar to what Takafumi said, there is a difference between being friends and being “friendly” with someone.

I agree that while I initially found the memory-loss/time-loop to be interesting, at the same time it was too poorly defined and vague to be really enjoyable. However, I disagree because the focus is entirely on Kurugaya experiencing true, hard hitting emotions for the first time. From anger over a friend being mistreated, to happiness and love, to crushing sorrow and loss. She says it herself in one of the last scenes: she wishes that she just woke up one day and forgot everything, meaning she wanted the good without realizing the potential consequences. She is in turmoil because she has never had nor lost anything she really cares about, and doesn’t know how to handle it. It’s the only genuine moment in the entire route, and actually left me feeling sad yet quite satisfied. The awesome moments of her playing the Capriccio for the first time and the fireworks scene were just as important as all the others to me, so despite the ending’s weirdness, I still felt a great deal of closure. So far it’s holding as my favorite route of LB! so far, and one of my favorites in any VN I’ve read to date.

Ha, It’s the same with me. I enjoyed reading Kanon’s perspective here and in the Tomoyo thread as well, despite being on the complete opposite side of the fence. There are quite a few similarities between Tomoyo and Kurugaya though. Must be something in the water in Key universes.

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Another post that got longer than expected, ohwell, have fun with it:

As with all other characters so far, I like Kurugaya as a character more than before reading her route. Like most girls, she got much more depth during her route. Her shyness and cute ultrablushes in way reminded me of Lucia from Rewrite.

I really liked the romance here. Generally, the route doing things a bit different from the usual formula was something I quite liked. I personally prefer a girl that takes the lead for myself, which made me enjoy the route even more.

The Love-love/LoliLoli hunters part was really great. Kyousuke totally is a lolicon, his attempts to deny it were bad.
I especially liked how genuinly the boys were curious about the details of the date and every progress with Kurugaya in general while Riki als wanted to tell them. I’ve had those situation in the past when I had crushes, and it felt so realistic.

I agree with others before me, that I think her background could have been explored more. I know it is not that important, but it was mentioned enough to make me curious to hear more about it.

In regards to the last bit, I do agree with @Odinbeard_McSparkles :

It felt a bit slow paced.
What I like is the hints about the secret of the world we seemed to be getting here. And how Kurugaya seems to know a lot about it. I still don’t know what it will end up being, but I think the routes made my idea of what it might be a lot clearer. I am still a bit confused though.
I really hope the true ending is more satisfying than this one was.

“You must not go out when it rains” might be Refrain foreshadowing - it just came so out of the blue and with Kurugaya’s knowledge, it just might be.

That’s a good observation. That would explain her weird behaviour.

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I haven’t read through all of the replies, so I apologise in advance if this has already been discussed.
I’m also going to place everything under Refrain spoilers so I can talk more freely.

I’m replaying through the first part of Kurugaya’s route after completing Refrain, and I’m wondering about something I already noticed the first time…
Those two girls’ surnames are respectively TakaMIYA (高宮) and KatsuSAWA (勝沢). If we take the endings and put then together we get… Miyazawa (宮沢). Additionally, I feel Kengo had a bit more screen time in this route than most other routes, if only to drop hints about how Kurugaya’s personality is perceived, since they were in the same class during first year.

However, no matter how much I think about it, I can’t really believe Kengo has something to do with it. I’m not sure if he can manipulate reality like Kyosuke, but even if he could, I can’t picture him creating those sort of characters, even out of good intentions.

It might very well be a coincidence, it’s just a bit peculiar coincidence imho, even though I can’t find any base for it.

inb4 it’s explained everyting during the route’s true end and this is all for nothing.

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I wonder, I don’t know about Kurugaya’s True Epilogue scene that happens after Refrain is done. I mean, does it happen in the real world? It’s strange because after she confessed her love to Riki, it ends. It’s not clear as to what just happened.

So did anyone playing or remember the first time playing this and wondering what her backstory was. I swore she was some kind of robot when I played this the first time. I got such heavy foreshadowing from that, especially when they said stuff like this:

Also the scene where she breaks the door and then the whole random information dumps. Anyone else? lol
Re-reading now I feel this emotion dis-attachment could’ve been better explained as a condition.

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(Refrain spoilers)

That scene happens specifically in autumn, and if I’m not mistaken the study trip happened some time during summer.
Combined with the fact that it’s an ending you can see only after Refrain, I think it’s possible that the scene happens in the real world.

@grooven
Maybe I’m slow to notice things or I just have a bad memory, but I noticed Kurugaya’s trope as a character was “lack of emotions” only after the bullying had started, which is basically at the end of the common route, and I wasn’t quite sure where Kurugaya’s character was going before that. I even thought her route could maybe be more focused on Riki than other routes, because she seemed so self-fulfilled at first.

At the time those problems began coming to surface, Kurugaya had already started feeling emotions - even if it was just the joy of playing with the Busters. She had already started changing, and as she began to feel anger and then love, she was struggling with her past self, because she thought she shouldn’t be feeling emotions, even though she already started to. What I want to say with this is that, personally, she didn’t look like much of a robot to me, even though she thought herself as one.

All in all, I think her route didn’t make me feel strong emotions like most of the other routes did. Komari had the grief of death and of seeing a broken girl, Haruka had anger and resentment, and the delicacy of a fragile girl, Kud had downright fear and terror, but also the struggle of a girl who only wanted to be accepted., Rin was a total mess, and don’t get me started on Refrain. I can’t speak about the additional routes yet.

But while doing Kurugaya’s route, I felt a mellow melancholy over anything else, especially near the ending. Even when everything started going sideways, the constant noise of the rain and of the piano made me feel somewhat calmer than I should’ve been, and when the dream started ending, I already had resigned and was prepared for the end.

However, despite the lack of strong emotional stimuli, hers was one of the route I liked the most, and also one of the funniest, especially near the beginning.
Of course this is all according to my personal thoughts and experience.

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The awkward thing about this route is that, as an isolated experience, it is a simple melancholic love story. A lot of the depth comes from and is reliant on revelations from other parts of the VN, more so than any other route.
The interesting thing is that, at least in my opinion, the questionably confusing bits that are oh so reliant on unprovided information don’t detract from the route. It never feels like the lack of knowledge is a detriment, because the situation is blatantly marked as unfair, and there is a lot of exposition to explain the issue that readers may not even notice.
It doesn’t feel incomplete as a story until you finish Little Busters! and recognize it in hindsight, something I can’t say about other routes… coughKudcough

Riki, despite being in such a weird situation, is pretty smart about the issue, and his narration really keeps the whole experience moving coherently. I believe this is why the route was so simplified in the anime; the route is far too reliant on unspoken word and unseen happenings for an anime adaptation to work.

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The same thing happened with me, but possibly for a different reason. My first exposure to LB! was through the anime, specifically the English dub. Anybody who has seen both might agree with me that there is a noticeable difference between the VA portrayals of her character. From what I remember, I found the English VA somewhat normal and more emotive (she always seemed to have a half smile and hint of a laugh to her voice), with occasional “ice queen” moments here and there, whereas the Japanese VA is much more consistently even and monotone throughout. I actually remember thinking in the dub of the anime whenever she described herself that it was a little off, as I never got that impression before. She could be cold, yes, but I would never would have called her emotionless. The VN does a excellent job in both the voice and writing department of actually showing that aspect of her, and I imagine if I had read it before the anime, I would have bought into it instantly. I found it especially believable in the first few scenes after they become a couple, where she instantly transitions from “friend mode” to “girlfriend mode.”

I would say my first impression of her was she is positioned as “the girl who is supposed to have it all.” On the outside, you see someone who is intelligent, strong, beautiful, and open with big sister vibes. That impression remains until you realize the only thing she didn’t really have and possibly didn’t even realize she ever needed was something that is sometimes taken for granted: a core of friends or one close friend by your side. Describing her early on is actually somewhat tough, since she stands out which makes her seem out of place, but her air of confidence also lets her seem like she belonged all along. She retains an individual status more than anyone else within the Busters, with Kyousuke as the only likely exception.

I felt that moreso in the anime, not so much in the VN. Again, it all comes down to personal interpretation, but she still says things to the effect of “Because it’s fun?” or “I assumed that’s what the general populace would do.” Both of those types of remarks are usually followed by question marks or said quizzically, with the sprite where she has one arm folded and the other hand on her chin, as if she’s thinking it over seriously. (Or I could be overthinking it a tad bit myself.) It happened enough times that I didn’t see it as a coincidence, and that she was genuinely clueless in most situations even after joining the Busters.

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So, that scene you’re referring to (the one where Kurugaya is confessing her love to Riki in a room where the sun is setting) happens in autumn after the study trip in the summer? I mean, yes, it’s an ending that we can see only after completing Refrain, so since all the Little Buster members are out of the Dream World, it does seem possible that it happens in the real world. Again, it’s a possibility, right?

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Yep, it happens in autumn. http://puu.sh/yCEgi/580d7c64ab.jpg (translation: “An autumn day”), so I believe it’s possible it happens in the real world. Of course, there’s no solid proof about that and it’s probably left to interpretation

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I actually mentioned this in the first post. Timeline wise the true end of this route fits with the end of Refrain.
Also, a LOT of discussion about this route is in the spoiler general thread. If you’ve finished Refrain, that thread is a great read for Yuiko route fans. People have touched on a similar subject in there.

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