Little Busters! - Refrain Arc Discussion

[Aspirety]

Discussion topic for the Refrain arc of Little Busters. Feel free to discuss anything from the vanilla Little Busters! without tagging as spoilers, but please mark any references to Little Busters EX (and all its ports) with [spoiler]. To Anime-viewers, keep in mind that the ‘Refrain arc’ refers to episode 7 onwards of season 2 (Titled ‘Little Busters Refrain’). Episodes 1-3 are the Kurugaya arc, and episodes 4-6 are the Rin arc.

While the thread is titled ‘Refrain’, you can feel free to discuss the implications Refrain and “The secret of the world” has on the rest of the story too.

Also, feel free to discuss the characters Masato, Kengo, Kyousuke and Riki as much as you like. If there’s enough character focused discussion I might consider giving one of them their own thread.

(Note: The following replies were pulled from the Kuragaya Discussion Thread.)

What would you rate this arc?

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[Vladz0r]

Well, Kurugaya “just being there to help Kyousuke” is kind of interesting. I have to see Kurugaya’s involvement in the other routes. Still, in the Refrain arc, Kyousuke mentions that he decided the team members already.

The anime said that they were all people Kyousuke chose that had a lingering regret. Let’s not forget that Yuto Tonokawa (Kurugaya’s route writer) supervised the anime scripts. Kurugaya did have her own regret, that she couldn’t experience emotions. Perhaps Kurugaya’s dual role is to help Kyousuke, but her route seems very “real” and true to herself. Kyousuke and the bros always seem somewhat aware of what the task is to help Riki, but maybe this coins the idea that they’re know as omniscient as I thought in that regard, and they’re simply going along with Riki’s ideas in a way that will push him along and find his inner strength, and aren’t aware of the heroine’s problem. I don’t know if the peculiarities of the characters are well-defined among all the routes, due to having 4 different writers for the VN with varying levels of character involvement, and widely different stories and magical involvement.

But yeah, I don’t think Kyousuke was like “Alright, I need a strong, beautiful, independent woman to help in my plan to help my friend Riki. Nothing else matters. Ah, Kurugaya fits perfectly!”
I think the pretenses of each heroine having a regret were always how the Little Busters were selected. I think the willpower thing, Kurugaya being able to change her route, may have been due to her unsatisfactory with her regret being filled. Satisfying her inability to feel emotions created more regret, the regret of not being able to be with Riki. When you think about it, the world is already somewhat manipulated to the will and thoughts of the heroines, as pertinent plot events are only brought up each girl’s individual arc. Kurugaya was more aware than the others and more “special”, though, but then what about Komari and her acts in Refrain? I think Tonokawa’s heroines were both playing with the rules with their willpower. This might’ve been something planned by Maeda to stir things up a bit, since I think Tonokawa follows the Maeda-esque format well with the supernatural stuff, I guess.

Actually, I think there’s evidence in all the heroine routes that each one understood the world they were in, but they for whatever reason, only Kurugaya does this.

Damn, now I really want to reread the whole VN after opening up Refrain to get those screenshots.

edit spoilered everything ;x

[Takafumi]

Little Busters! - Yuiko Kurugaya Route & Character Discussion

But yeah, I don’t think Kyousuke was like “Alright, I need a strong, beautiful, independent woman to help in my plan to help my friend Riki. Nothing else matters. Ah, Kurugaya fits perfectly!”

I think it was more along the lines of “Hey, one of the people on this bus just so happens to be the smartest person in school! Maybe she would help us keep control of everyone.”

All of the heroines say farewell to Riki in some way or another at the end of their route, so they probably realize the secret of the world after their regrets are gone. Each character has almost complete control of the world whenever Riki focuses on them; notable examples include the existence of Midori, and the rebirth of Kudryavka’s family. Apart from Yuiko, Kengo, and Kyousuke (and maybe Komari) none of the characters show they are aware of their ability to manipulate the world. The reason they have this ability is that they are the people who are dreaming the fake world~

The most obvious example of Yuiko having control in other people’s routes, is that she is able to teleport in every route~

[Vladz0r]

The most obvious example of Yuiko having control in other people’s routes, is that she is able to teleport in every route~

wat
I need to re-read the VN LOL.

[Aspirety]

Little Busters! - Yuiko Kurugaya Route & Character Discussion

The most obvious example of Yuiko having control in other people’s routes, is that she is able to teleport in every route~

Iya iya iya, I think you’re looking into kurugaya’s athleticism too deeply…

[Takafumi]

Teleporting, or crazy speed then~
She silently runs around Riki whenever she is trolling him at the vending machines~ Also I’m pretty sure that in the Sleepover episode in the anime, Yuiko teleports~

I still need to finish the anime >.> I need some motivation, ahaha~

[Naoki_Saten]

Guys, you really shouldn’t get too hung up on that “Member selection” thing. It’s not like Kyousuke up and decided “Ok, I need to construct a dream world. And then I need to find people with regrets. And maybe some people who help me controll that world.” I seriously doubt it was like that.

The situation was the following: Everyone was dying. Only Riki and Rin had the option to escape alive. Out of those who were dying, there were 8 people who had strong regrets that made dying even more sorrowful. Kyousuke and the gang regretted leaving Rin and Riki behind. And there were the girls who would die without resolving their live’s greatest conflicts. To put it simply, they did not want to die while still suffering from these regrets. Their emotions were so strong that put together, a world was created.
That world had certain mechanics to it:
It was sustained by the people inside it, let’s call them “dreamers” (except Riki and Rin).
It worked in a way that would give the ‘dreamers’ a way of dealing with their regrets. Basically, as Midori explained it, the world is made so that it fullfilled the wishes of those inside it.
If need be, it would manipulate the memories of those inside. Even Kyousuke got his memories erased from time to time (for example during Kurugaya route).

No need to picture Kyousuke as some kind of calculative overlord who planned everything from beginning to end. He was merely overseeing the world but it’s not like he consciously selected the “dreamers” with the thought of “I need some girls with problems”. Kyousuke is not a world-creating esper. What made the world appear were the collective regrets of the future LB members in their pre-death state.
He merely used what was available to him. He would let Riki get close to the girls and tackle their problems and if he succeeded, that would help the girls defeat their regrets. Two birds with one stone.

[Takafumi]

Of course Kyousuke didn’t randomly come up with everything. A miracle happened, and the fake world was created. Kyousuke, Kengo, Masato, and an indiscernible amount of others came up with a plan to make use of the miracle as best they could. Kyousuke and the gang made use of what was at their disposal, to create a situation where Riki and Rin would learn to live without the rest of the Little Busters! That was made obvious during Refrain~

If Kyousuke was some grand mastermind, he wouldn’t have messed up during Yuiko’s and Rin’s routes, and Refrain would be a lot simpler~ Ahaha. I tried to focus on a wider aspect than just Kyousuke, although in a lot of instances I referred to Kyousuke as a plan maker of sorts~ That’s just because he is the leader of the Little Busters! and it’s easier to assume he had the final say in any plans to make use of the miracle granted to them. Vladz0r mentioned that the Little Busters! were selected to be Little Busters due to their regrets, and we both mentioned that the heroines have control over what happens in their routes due to them being the “dreamers” who created the fake world~

We focused more on regrets and the setting of Little Busters! than on “member selection.” Well, from my perspective at least >.> Auu, maybe I subconsciously focused on the wrong thing…

[Vladz0r]

So, here’s a good question…
The first run of the field trip where Riki and Rin have to run away together without saving everyone - is this the real world or the dream world?

Real world argument:
The world has already collapsed. Kyousuke said he couldn’t sustain the world much longer. Rin isn’t mindbroken anymore.

Fake world argument:
Kyousuke’s voice appears if you try to save them the first time, going
“…Did you see what happened?.. …Next time, just run. …Together with Rin… Got it?”
The girls’ farewell follows the bus explosion, as Rin says she was holding onto Riki’s hand a moment ago, and then the “Last Dream” arc continues on, Komari says she was selfish and ask for more time, etc. So, this could imply the dream world hadn’t really ended after the “Little Busters” arc.
Kyousuke’s voice also appears in the hospital when you run away with Rin.

So, if you go with the “real world first run” theory:
-Kyousuke is able to talk from beyond the grave.
-The girls’ farewells happening in a dream world once it had ended is some sort of plot hole/convenience.
-There’s now the time loop magic, Riki and Rin reversing time after Riki chooses to be born again. This can be kind of explained if you apply the real world time looping back from Kyousuke’s arc, but the real-world time looping is also vague.

It doesn’t seem like there’s definitive evidence to support or deny either claim completely, as you have to build arguments based on assumptions and making implications about character behavior, like Kyousuke basically not telling Riki and Rin that the first test was a dream.

Any thoughts?

[Takafumi]

I think that it was something like this~
The dream world doesn’t stop until the dreamer’s either accept their regrets, or sort their regrets out entirely.
By the time they go to the bus for the first time, everyone’s regrets have been marked off the to-do list… apart from Riki and Rin’s.

Rin’s regret was most likely that she struggled to make friends, and felt lonely. She remembers all of her friends, looks back on all of the memories, and realizes she has become more sociable.

Riki’s regret was, of course, the Narcolepsy effecting his life. Narcolepsy was basically Riki’s way of running away from anything scary or sad. He remembers the cause of his Narcolepsy (the crash) and accepts what happened. Riki stops running away from the sadness and so his Narcolepsy is cured.

After this the dream world finally fulfills it’s role and vanishes, dropping Riki and Rin at the site of the bus crash in the real world.

There could be a lot of improvements to this idea though… >>

[Pepe]

Okay so I have a question regarding the Little Busters world in general

So the dream world was built off from the shared consciousnesses of the Little Busters members, rights? What does that make of the consciousnesses of the rest of the people within the dream world? The likes of Sasami, Kanata, Suginami, A-chan, heck even Sasami’s underlings.

They might have explained it in EX but I am genuinely curious. The only person I’m sure of is Miyuki because she’s already dead IRL

[Aspirety]

As of Refrain, there’s no way to be certain. We know there’s a lot of ‘NPCs’ in the dream world, but we also see that many of Riki’s classmates that were on the field trip also appear in the dream world. Are they sentient? I can’t say for sure, but my gut feeling is yes.

I have a feeling EX will explain some of this, though.

[Pepe]

Same. This also hooks in to discussion re: Suginami.

I do remember hearing that a few EX routes actually took place AFTER the accident so that might not guarantee the consciousnesses of Sasami and Kanata were actually there…

Actually… Kanata is from another class altogether, isn’t she? Not sure about Sasami though

[Aspirety]

Actually I have a question, because this confused me. How did Haruka get on the bus? Was that explained and I forgot? She’s supposed to be from another class.

[Pepe]

Yup, that was explained. She openly hopped on the bus of the other class. She visits the other class so often that I figure everyone else there took no mind to it. I actually did something similar back in my college days

Whereas Kyousuke snuck in the trunk or something (not sure if that was in the VN, but I remember it in the anime)

[Aspirety]

Oh okay, I must’ve forgotten after watching the Anime (where it was never explained).
So that accounts for all the Little Busters + Saya, but I have yet to find out how Sasami and Kanata fit in. I’m sure they’ll explain it… Right?

[Takafumi]

She openly hopped on the bus of the other class.

Did that all the time~ Wahaha~

So that accounts for all the Little Busters + Saya, but I have yet to find out how Sasami and Kanata fit in. I’m sure they’ll explain it… Right?

EX spoilers. Sasami ends up involved because of her cat, which created a new fake world. I think this is after Refrain, so the common route Sasami is an NPC. and Kanata got dragged in because of what I imagine is either her illness, or the news of her sister’s involvement in the accident. I think it’s safe to say that either one of those things could potentially cause her to fall into a world where regrets are fixed. Kanata should be like the rest of the Little Busters in terms of awareness.

[Aspirety]

Here’s a topic for discussion. Who is your Little Busters OTP?

Haha, okay some context because I don’t want this to go full tumblr. The great thing about Little Busters is that it doesn’t establish any final relationship for the protagonist. There’s no canon for which girl Riki ends up with; it can go multiple ways. There’s the secret Refrain ending with includes a moment of intimacy between Riki and Rin. There’s the secret end to Kurugaya’s route. Are there any others I’m not aware of? Either way, who do YOU imagine Riki ends up with at the end after Refrain is over?

This is coming from someone who hasn’t finished EX yet, so that might blow this catbox open. If there’s any EX spoilers, tag them please.

[Takafumi]

There’s the secret end to Kurugaya’s route. Are there any others I’m not aware of?

There’s Yuiko’s ending, the Rin ending, and there is a couple more in EX (Saya and Sasami, although Sasami’s could be the ending of a closed off alternate world, and Saya’s is like a second canon ending. Maeda’s “what if” headcannon.) All of them could be considered “true endings” depending on how you look at them, however I feel like (out of the original Litbus routes) the Rin one at least is still in the fake world due to the choices you can make.

Predictably, I like to believe Yuiko’s true end (IIRC it’s set at the start of Fall) takes place after the beach trip and the summer holiday. The part near the end of Refrain where everyone is described as happy apart from Yuiko really pushes this idea forward for me. Some people could say they just added it as wish fulfillment for the shippers out there, and it had to be added after Refrain to avoid spoilers… but it doesn’t really spoil anything Refrain-ey - at least, that the original Yuiko route didn’t already explore. To me it seems like a “we both remembered our promise” event.

If we ignore the topic of “true ends” and what is Canon, I’d have to say Riki x Mio could be a good pairing… They don’t fit together as well as other pairings, but there is something nice about them. I do like Kengo x Mio more though. I feel like they’d suit each other well.

There’s Kud Wafter too… but eww no pls. Masato x Kud > Riki x Kud.

[Pepe]

My answers here are going to be a pretty huge bandwagon because, well, they seem to be really popular choices (at least, according to pixiv) but anywaaay, here goes.

Masato x Kud: They just have this sort of chemistry, this innocent silliness between them that makes this couple just so cute.
Kyousuke x Komari: Both being tied into the secret of the world, I think there’s a bit more to this pairing than it seems. For one, Komari’s Spiral of Happiness seems to connect to Kyousuke, perhaps motivating him to find a better reason for living after graduation (one of the points never really fleshed out in the VN). I feel like Komari could inspire Kyousuke in a way deeper than any other person could.

And not so bandwagon…

Riki x Yuiko: Simply because, out of all the routes, this was the one that harbored true emotion between the two. Kud and Haruka flirting were cute, but not very deep. Komari and Mio romance was sidetracked due to the rest of their problems. Rin was just simply inexistent, and I will fight anybody over this. But Kurugaya was just ;~; and that secret ending was just ;~;