Let's Learn Japanese!

Off-Topic
#21

The context of the example I gave was actually pretty terrible. When I first saw it used that way I really disliked that they kept that term. (I don’t mind so much anymore.) But I would still say it’s part of the translation. If we think of translation as a sort of process that transforms a given input, we can think of certain words as, although going through the process, coming out effectively unaltered because the process need not apply to them.

My opinion on translation specifically is that its purpose is to make something understandable for the target audience to whatever degree the original author intended for their target audience. Leaving some words untouched, then, could be viewed as part of the creative freedom of the translator. (Much like 4’33" is still considered a song despite its lack of detail.) Well, I just wanted to explain my view a little bit more. I don’t disagree with what you’ve said either.

I do agree that with no 1:1 mapping terms, like tsundere, that those are acceptable candidates for leaving in, but again I think this depends on the audience. For example, if we know the audience won’t typically know what tsundere means then the translation for it may need to completely reword the sentence.

There are some interesting problems, like translating Ayu’s use of boku in Kanon. (General/mild Kanon spoiler) Especially since it is referenced later on by Yuichi. I’ve completely forgotten how that was translated though. (And I haven’t seen the dubbed version if there is one.)

Yeah I agree with that. (Changing memes to match better so the same effect comes across.) There are certain translations that are well regarded to have gone too far though. (Granted, this is usually by fans already familiar with the show who aren’t necessarily in the target audience.) A good example would be the English version of Detective Conan. The name of the series was changed to Case Closed. Locations were changed to places in America. “I think that guy was from Chicago.” Names of characters changed entirely.

I really like TextFugu too! Thanks, I had forgotten to add that one. The writing style is definitely engaging and enjoyable. I’ve registered with WaniKani but haven’t used it just yet. I’ll add both to the list soon.

#22

While we’re at it discussing localization (although I’m not sure if it’s the right place to discuss about it)
I honestly don’t like localization like Detective Conan, like the example @NotKyon stated. Changing names and location are not okay in my opinion, but at times necessary to make the reader feel close… or maybe that’s the execs think.

At times I often question about the official localized title, e.g. Yahari Oregairu turned into My Teen Romcom SNAFU. I honestly don’t like the use of military slang in the title although the term is now not limited for military use only. (Also I found out that a lot of people are not familiar with that term, but they said SNAFU is quite matching with the nature of the show)

I also dislike the localized 2009 Fullmetal Alchemist as Brotherhood. The Japanese title is redundant too (鋼の錬金術師 FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST, lit. Fullmetal Alchemist: FULLMETAL ALCHEMIST). I don’t quite like to use the title Brotherhood or FMAB because in my opinion, “brotherhood” is more known as a term of organization, or guild, or gang… The word means “being brothers” so maybe it’s not all that bad, but maybe because of culture or something, that word has a bad connotation to me. I usually call this series as Hagaren FA (yep, not FMA) or FA 2009.

Sometimes the official localized title is not quite literal with the Japanese title but it works well, like Shingeki no Kyojin (lit. Advancing Giants) into Attack on Titan. Well, at least it’s better than Eotena Onslaught lol

(feel free to flag or delete this if it is off topic)

#23

Oh god, I´ve been waiting for this thead for so long :slight_smile: ( I’ve been studiying jap for 6 months) I got to say that I´m not in any kind of course. I´ve been learning by just reading books, guides and using apps for andorid, I hope U guys can help me and I hope to be able to help others too :)…

I’m more interested in learning how to read japanes, I got hiragana and katakana nailed and I´ve been studing kanji for a few months so there comes my first question. I´m currently reading a book called “remembering the kanji” but it just talks about kanji´s meaning, strokes and radicals, but It doesn´t even touch the japanese reading neighter onyomi nor the kunyomi… U think I should first learn the kanjis and it’s meaning before the japanese vocabulary and reading?? or should I change to a diferent book for the kanji learning?

#24

If I remember correctly Heisig made other Remembering the Kanji books to follow up on the first one, teaching their pronunciations and meanings. While I didn’t stick with RtK personally, I think it’s a really solid system if you’re willing to commit to it. You can get through the first RtK book crazy quickly if you keep your mind to it. From that point learning the readings should be pretty easy stuff. It’s a proven method that many people highly regard, so I don’t think you’ll go wrong by using RtK.

Of course, a lot of this comes down to personal preference. If you want a RtK-like system that also teaching you the on’yomi and kun’yomi I recommend checking out WaniKani.

1 Like
#25

Huh, I always thought that was just a random catchy word they threw in. I remember it more than Oregairu.

Probably the culture thing. Brotherhood is like fatherhood, motherhood, or sisterhood. The only time I’ve seen the word used in a way that in negative is with that one Assassin’s Creed game.
Plus, it needs to be disassociated with the original, so it needs a short tag-line. No one would know what FA 2009 is.

That was never supposed to be taken literally though. It wasn’t lumping the words together.
http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/_cb20130725232055/shingekinokyojin/images/d/d4/SnK-_Manga_Volume_1.png

Attack on Titan makes more sense in the long term as well I think, at least, as far as I managed to get with the Manga.

#26

I didn’t realize this, but Stack Exchange also covers the Japanese language.

Basically you can ask a question, somebody can answer, and the better answers get voted up. You can choose the answer that actually solved your question as well. There are similar systems out there, like Yahoo! Answers. Personally, I prefer Stack Exchange.

I also just found “Maggie Sensei.”

http://maggiesensei.com/

It has some pretty extensive coverage on different topics and seems to do a good job of covering various bits of slang and other unofficial aspects of the language. For example, あり the slang term.

Hopefully these will prove to be helpful. :slight_smile:

I’ll edit the main post soon.

2 Likes
#27

Oh no I think Ixrec’s guide has gone down, I can’t access it anymore T_T

I wish I’d downloaded it.

#28

Hmm I think it’s his entire website that’s down right now, so perhaps it should be up again sometime soon :wink:

To put this thing back on topic, do any of you guys use any sort of mechanism to help memorize Kanji? I generally use Anki (on android) but I ended up being too lazy to do it everyday xP Even harder for me because my lessons basically require me to write Kanji so urrrrrgh

#29

I like the methods presented by WaniKani and RtK, personally. Especially if you want to write them, the mnemonics-based method that RtK uses while writing out the kanji was really handy. I was able to memorize the writing and meaning of like 40 kanji in my first couple hours using the book if I’m remembering right.

It doesn’t have readings in the first book, though, so that may not gel with your learning style.

I like WaniKani’s structure better, but that doesn’t have any sort of writing component, so you’re out of luck there. Of course, if you know basic stroke order (which I assume you do) it’s not very hard to figure out how to write the stuff you cover. Although it would be really time consuming to write all the stuff you go over.

3 Likes
#30

Im currently using rosetta stone. Do you guys think this is a good way to learn japanese or do you guys prefer other tools?

#31

I used Rosetta Stone a bit, already knowing a bit about the language. Going from my experience with it, and some of the reviews I’ve heard of people who went all the way with Rosetta Stone, I’d say it works… But I don’t think I’d recommend it for Japanese.

Either way, how do you feel about it so far?

#32

I’d say it’s alright my problem is that I don’t like advancing unlessbi get 100% (stupid achievivest) xd

#33

Yeah. From what I’ve experienced in Rosetta Stone there’s been basically no explanation of anything. I once saw the analogy that it tried teaching its customers languages like a parent might teach a baby a language. (I think that was from the Tofugu guys.) I can’t deny that based on what I’ve done in it so far. So a lot of explanation seems to be missing, at least early on. I’m not sure if that gets better the more you use it or not though…

Anyway, in addition to the books @Pepe mentioned I’ve also heard the Genki series of books are pretty good. You can also check out memrise.com, which has free interactive supplemental courses to those books (among other things). In any case, I don’t think having extra resources would be detrimental to learning Japanese, as long as they aren’t incompatible with whatever else you’re doing.

Hope that helps. Cheers~

#34

Thanks I will definitely check out this Genki series! It looks promising and so far Rosetta Stone has been ehh match picture with sound I don’t feel like I’m learning just constantly retrying a set of pictures until I’ve gotten 100% and then doing the same thing over and over… Maybe I’m just a Moran XD.

#35

A small question (that could be erased since it is not important).

I’ve transcoded this little audio from Sunohara directly from the VN samples. ( z0422 001880 )
Does anybody understands what he says?

The first word sounds like “dude” with japanese pronunciation, but I just don’t know yet if Japanese people uses the English word dude in their daily language (just like bye bye, mission start).

I was able to identify Bikkuri, it usually means surprise. And it looks like it is in the Past Indicative (Positive) form: bikkuri shita した

Update: It looks like he also added しただろう after Bikkuri. (Past Presumptive)

Maybe he is speaking of Tomoyo.* : )

Any help would be appreciated!

#36

I don’t remember the context, but he says: Dou da, bikkurishita darou?

Basically: “How about it, you were surprised, weren’t you?”

4 Likes
#37

Thanks a lot Yerian.
You know, learning Japanese with Sunohara is fun.

1 Like
#38

With Japanese, you can add the word “する” to most nouns to transform them into verbs. That’s what Sunohara (and many others do) with the word "ビックリした” because した is the past form of する

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#40

I’ve heard from people (non natives) living in Japan for years that there’s a system designed for rich people, that was released to the public when the author died. You just have to listen and pay relaxed attention. There’s no need effort and you don’t have to memorize anything, It is a good start (so they claim).
I am talking about: Michel Thomas. Google it, it worth the money imo.

P.S.: Pepe, thank you for your advice regarding verbs! (I put it here to avoid double posting).

1 Like
#41

Speaking of Wanikani, Tofugu is currently giving away 3 free lifetime memberships: http://www.tofugu.com/giveaways/wanikani-lifetime/?lucky=3417

Its a pretty great service, and they dont normally even sell lifetime memberships. As I’ve told many people, if you want to learn kanji, in my opinion this is the way to do it!

(@ghagler I know we’ve talked about this before, this is definitely the time to check it out)

2 Likes