Kanon - Nayuki Minase Route & Character Discussion

Key Discussion
#22

Sorry for this, but I will open the bookclub on a sour note because I want to share a view that I have been considering about for awhile now.

In my opinion, Nayuki’s route ruins the visual novel and I think Nayuki is done so much better in the anime, where she can be an important character without bringing down the the rest of the heroines with her and doesn’t have to be in a Yuuichi x Nayuki situation to bring out her backstory.

Nayuki is such a stubborn character, holding onto a forbidden love, despite how many times it hits her in the face (Yuuichi’s constant teasing on the verge of bullying) but importantly she distracts Yuuichi from all the important heroines and happenings in Kanon that are relying on an important part of the story, a miracle. Nayuki does not need a miracle in her route, unless you count Akiko being involved in a car accident; a problem that is sort of slapped into Nayuki’s route and only in her route for the sake of bringing out the limits of her laid back attitude and forcing a reinforced relationship into Yuuichi and Nayuki.
(Broad spoilers to the rest of Kanon’s routes ahead)

Despite all the heroines that Yuuichi previously has much more important history with, Nayuki’s route throws all this out the window for the sake of tying up Nayuki’s backstory with a controversial ribbon. The visual novel just won’t accept that Nayuki is and should strictly be, a very important side character.

I want to further empathize the consequences of Nayuki’s route by asking the question:

what happens to the other heroines during and after the events of Nayuki’s route? I honestly don’t think it is a good trade off.

In the anime, Nayuki is done so much better and in a way that integrates her perfectly with the rest of the heroines. i.e without trashing the rest of Kanon. But don’t get me wrong, I think Nayuki has a well developed character(Prior to the major events of her route) with important backstory and iconic comic relief, it is the way it is restricted to the route mechanic that I believe makes it bad for the rest of Kanon.

#23

That is indeed a pretty sour opinion haha. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I’m guessing the gist of it would be “Yuuichi shouldn’t end up with Nayuki because he achieves so much more by being with any of the other heroines”. Now, I won’t discount the fact that you’re probably correct on that account but… is there anything wrong with that?

While I wouldn’t call the romance of Nayuki’s route amazing or anything, it’s still something that exists and is believable. Had Yuuichi actually fallen in love with Nayuki, then there’s absolutely nothing wrong with him ending up together with Nayuki. He has the right to pursue what he wants, even if it means having to hurt others on a much larger scale. Heck, a lot of romance stories have been written just to showcase that, in the matter of love, one should not be afraid to take a step forward, even if it means hurting others.

Now then, does it retract from the overall message of Kanon? Well that depends. You say that an important part of Kanon is the miracle, and the fact that Nayuki’s route does not use this, it is out-of-place from the rest of the routes of Kanon. But I also think that another important part of Kanon is memories, and Nayuki’s route showcases this aspect very well. The main setting of Kanon, after all, is Yuuichi returning to the town after 7 years and rekindling his relationships from those 7 years past. It shows the natural evolution of an innocent relationship with another person as a child, that slowly grew into affection after not seeing each other for such a long time. That affection could not have existed without the memories that they shared with each other.

So while you definitely aren’t wrong with your statements, I feel that it’s also worth looking at the route from another perspective~ I hope this helps

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#24

Don’t know about others but I personally loved this route

This route is more focused on the inner emotions and feelings of the character, rather than the outer. The thing I loved about Nayuki’s route was because unlike Key’s other usual routes where the boy helps the girl and tries fixing the problem, Nayuki’s route doesn’t necessarily have that formula. He can’t change the fact that Akiko is in the hospital and can’t change the fact that there was little hope for her to live.

He also can’t change Nayuki’s mind so easily, since Akiko was the only person Nayuki had.

I’m still curious as to why her father left, considering Akiko is pretty much wife-material (except for her disgusting honey-jam).

Route has its flaws, not to mention Nayuki is pretty much depressed in this entire route, but I enjoyed it.

I think it’s more enjoyable when you realize Nayuki’s life. How her mother is all that she had and how her father just left them. How if she never asked her mother to go buy her that cake, that she’d be still alive. If you put yourself in Nayuki’s shoes during that point, you’d probably be the same way (unless you lack emotions).

I think it also emphasized Kanon pretty well. How (Kanon) bad things can happen, and people can get out of your life, in the blink of an eye. Even when it’s an accident. Even when you don’t ask for it. BUT, if you believe in miracles, fighting against fate, then maybe, just maybe, a miracle would happen So being played as the first route, or final route, it pretty much gives emphasis on Kanon’s stor(y)(ies)

Like in Ayu’s route she fell down the tree. It wasn’t something she asked for. It wasn’t something Yuichi wanted. It was an accident. It wasn’t something they wanted. But it happened.

Or in Shiori’s route how the very fact that she has a “sickness” that would make her die around the age of 16. It wasn’t something she asked for. It just happened. And her sisters been ignoring her ever since because of that little thing.

Couldn’t stand Yuichi though. This is basically what happened.
Yuichi - OPEN THE DOOR NAYUKI. NAYUKI. NAYUKI !!! OPEN THE DOOR
Nayuki - Go Away… Yuichi…
Yuichi - IM COMING IN
Nayuki - Stay Away ! Please… Just leave me alone
Yuiichi - Thinks what he should do

Me - Go to your room.

OH ! I FORGOT ABOUT AYU ! BUT WAIT ! MAKOTO APPEARS ! Maybe I’ll just stay with Makoto for a while and leave Nayuki depressed, all alone (with maybe Kaori and Kitigawa).

This little boy.

I really didn’t like him though in this route. He’s the core of what you shouldn’t do in situations like this. It causes more harm than good. But at least thanks to him, Nayuki believes that miracles can happen.

It also felt sad, how Akiko’s brutal accident didn’t affect him in any way when he heard about it. To think that he’d at least be a bit heartbroken over his own aunts accident

Route is definately a 5/5 for me. Rather than her route being something that happens to her/affects her, it’s something that happens to someone else (excluding that Rabbit thing from Nayuki’s past). It was refreshing to see that new formula of the core drama of the route being something that affects someone else, as opposed to Kanon route-norms.

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#25

Eh, but he already says goodbye to Ayu way before the route starts…

And Makoto also doesn’t appear anymore after Nayuki’s route starts, does she?

I mean, if you’re talking about the anime then it makes sense but it’s pretty unfair to judge his actions based on the anime alone, especially since everybody else on here is talking about the events of the VN during this bookclub

#26

Yes. Talking about the anime.
Im talking about her route in general. Not for the book club
Its a pinned post and I loved her route.

I didn’t like some aspects of her character much, but her route overshadows that.

#27

I definitely agree with what you like about the route, but when you lambaet Yuuichi and say that that’s part of her route “in general” then I think it is unfair.

On that note, why don’t you read the VN along with us? :stuck_out_tongue:

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Kanon Bookclub Topic
#28

I’ve made a few small opinions on this route before, but I feel like some of it has changed in the past few months, especially with this new reading of Kanon.

I’ve stated before that Nayuki and Yuuichi share this lovely brother-sister complex that’s fun to experience, but the biggest problem with this route is that it tries a bit too hard to develop that into an explicit romance. Don’t get me wrong, it’s far from the worst romance I’ve ever seen. However, the direction the route takes makes Nayuki’s intentions look a little more sinister than they seem.

In common, Nayuki makes very subtle, deliberate suggestions to get closer to Yuuichi from asking if he remembers her name to guilting him into buying bowls of sugar for her to asking if he wants a lunch made by her. It makes sense considering her mother raised her in a similar manner, but it gets worrisome around the point when she verbally dissolves the boundaries of the platonic brother-sister relationship on the 18th. This invites Yuuichi into taking her out on a ‘date’ the very next day, and not even a week passes before she willingly gives up her virginity.

This, in my mind, damages Nayuki’s character, and it’s very hard to dismiss despite the application of the all-ages patch. Despite Hisaya’s attempts to salvage the rest of the story, it comes off as a mixture of inconsistencies and meaningful moments that only serve to confuse (and eventually bore) me further. However, flaws aside, this route sets itself apart from and sets the tone for the rest of the routes by posing a very real dilemma: when you’re patiently waiting for a greater happiness, how long is too late? Is it possible to love or be happy with something, or someone, again after growing to hate them?

The parallel between Yuuichi and Nayuki is perhaps the route’s biggest strength, complimenting the gradual reveal of Nayuki’s true colors. With her mother truly being her biggest role model, the sudden loss of that model strips her of any masks she has on, revealing her as a selfish coward whose expectations of life have been raised far too high. The sudden crashing of reality upon her head goes to show that not only is her mother not a very good model for her, but that she’s been thrown into a situation she can’t run away from, and she tries to hide it away like Yuuichi did all those years ago. Only when Yuuichi makes an effort to amend the broken promises he made all those years ago do they come to realize how similar they are. Their understanding of each other gives them an unbreakable connection, along with the responsibility to support one another should one of them falter.

I like redemptive stories like this, where the grave mistakes made by the protagonist require a great deal of personal amendment. It’s a generally safe start to something far more grand in scale, as a lot of stories sometimes have. (looks at The Force Awakens) :stuck_out_tongue:

Now, I want to make a few mentions to the usage of background music and symbolism in Kanon that I mentioned in the common route discussion earlier. Taken directly from my notes:

Afterglow is my favorite song in the entire OST, because like many of Maeda’s pieces, it evokes more than one specific emotion. It represents, to me, the general tone of Kanon; an uneasiness in waking up to an unfamiliar, cruel world, but somewhere out there is a kernel of hope that motivates us, carries us out of bed every day to face the cruelty of reality. As a significant part of Nayuki’s route focuses on this theme, it is used to great effect, in my opinion, in the mornings Yuuichi wakes to begin the next painful day.

A specific image I found in Nayuki’s route is that of the snow bunny. Snow bunnies are simple little sculptures made by children, which ordinarily don’t take very long to fashion. Nayuki mentions a few times in both common and this route that she’s not particularly good at anything, much less making a snow bunny, so I can imagine the effort she put into was nothing to sneeze at. Unfortunately she had to make a parting/proposal gift out of something temporal and fragile, which child Yuuichi found no worth in. The repairing of a crushed snow bunny by both Yuuichi and Nayuki represented an investment Yuuichi did not possess as a child, too young and self-centered to understand Nayuki’s love.

By the same token, the image of a smashed strawberry shortcake represents a crushing loss for Nayuki. So for my Key Point for this route, How does the parallel between the strawberry shortcake and the snow bunny illustrate the dilemmas Nayuki’s character faces?

In closing, Nayuki’s route is nothing special at face value, but with a limited knowledge of the entire story and its themes at heart, it paves the way for its sister routes in the handling of its themes and symbolism. :slight_smile:

…I forgot which route was next. Makoto, I think? :confused:

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List your favorite tracks from Key's OSTs
#29

I just finished Nayuki’s route (first time I read it). I liked it quite a lot, but since I haven’t read the others in Kanon, I won’t say much of Nayuki compared to the other characters in this post.

So, if I understood your post well, your only `problem with Nayuki’s route is that the change from “brother-sister relationship” into “lovers relationship” is way too quick for it to be believable?

To me, even though I recognise the H scene was way too forced and uncalled for at that point, the transition was fairly well made. I mean, Nayuki was still in love with him as you mentioned. She keeps leaving hints just like you said. Yuuichi, on the other hand never actually feels like she’s completely his sister. He feels embarassed when they do things together in public, such as eating that bento box in class.

Therefore, when Yuuichi realises that he is in love with Nayuki, it didn’t feel all that rushed. It was an evident conclusion that could be foreseen from the moment Nayuki starts leaving those hints.

Now, talking about the OST, while I share your opinion about that uneasiness but yet, mysterious motivation to keep on living that Afterglow gives, my choice is 風を待った日 (The Day when I waited for the Wind). The reason I prefer this piece of the OST over others is the fact that when Yuuichi is sitting on the bank before Nayuki comes at the end of his route, he starts thinking about how the snow was falling too a couple weeks ago. Well, I live in Spain and it’s May now, but still, this scene somehow managed to trick me into thinking that it was actually snowing here. Also, the main melody resembles a jazz piano melody that merges both the happy feeling of the upbeat melody of “Last Regrets” with the slightly melancholic or sad feeling of a blues. Also, there is a part which begins at 1:45 of the music in which you can here that same “jazz piano” but now with a tension feeling, as if either something is to happen or something important has actually just happened. At the same time, in the background is a violin (or viola, I’m not that good at discerning them), the sound of which makes me think of an ode to something, maybe an ode to those good times with Nayuki that just ended.

Anyway, I found so much inside a single OST track that I fell in love with it.

My vision on your snow bunny / strawberry shortcake symbol is that they both represent the moment in which they no longer are children and have to face with life’s rawest face (correct me if that phrase is wrongly expressed in English please). The snow bunny, being a bunny, something children usually like, and being made of pure white snow, representing one’s innocence, is crushed by Yuuichi as if he wanted to tell Nayuki how everything wasn’t as light hearted as she thought, and that she should start watching the whole picture. Similarly, The strawberry shortcake is something very sweet (a lot considering Japanese people are not that used to eating sweet things as far as I know). That sweetness may be Nayuki’s perception of life, crushed after her mother’s incident.

Expanding on the subject, the way the cake was crushed may signify different things depending on how you look at it. If the cake fell from Akiko’s hands, it may symbolise how Akiko was the one who imposed (maybe it is a harsh way to put it, though) that cheerful way of living into Nayuki. Hence, once Akiko disappeared, the cake itself fell as did Nayuki’s mental health.

If we look at it from another perspective, if we consider it was the car’s fault to crush the cake, we might think that Akiko was trying to protect Nayuki’s innocence, or even her existence. That however, is something impossible to accomplish it’s only a matter of time before Nayuki realises that her way of seeing life isn’t even close to what actually life is about. In this moment, the car might represent the life (not anyone’s life, but life as a general concept), showing Akiko the futility of her self-imposed mission.

Be it one way or another, what can be extracted from these scenes is what is explicitly mentioned in the VN: Nayuki was way too dependent on her mother and her way of facing cruelties in life had to change. That’s the message I got across at least.

However, the sentence in which she says something along the lines of “I depended too much on my mother, I can no longer be strong, but if I’m with you I can be strong, so let me depend on you”, kind of states that even though she’s made a step towards maturing, she still has a long way until she finally reaches it.

Although I don’t understand the what first question is specifically referring to (and would appreciate it if you could explain it to me), for me, the second question’s answer would be: if I like something now, why keep on hating it? This however, implies that you have already started liking something,l but if we assume Nayuki’s perspective just after Yuuichi arrives the town 7 years after, the question would turn into: Can I forgive what happened, considering the circumstances in which it happened and considering what might have changed in this 7 years?

So to me, it revolves more about forgiving than being able to love something again.

Well, I enjoyed this route a lot and consider it being quite well done as I said at the beginning of my post, and since this has been my first route, your statement might be true. I’ll be happy to reaffirm it or revoke it after I finish Kanon and have listened to all podcasts.

Indeed. :unamused:

I wanted to finish this post by praising you insert praise the sun emote here. Those posts of yours are elaborate as hell, are you used to critiquing novels, films or anything? Anyway, I’m going to use your posts as a critique guideline whether you like it or not. :wink:

PS: I’m not a native English speaker, so as I mentioned at some point half through the post, feel free to correct me if anything is wrongly phrased or if there are spelling mistakes. One’s mind should always be open to improving.

3 Likes
#30

It’s not that at all. I think the pacing is fair, it’s the end result that perplexes me. I’m just of the mindset that Nayuki was deliberately trying with master subtlety to get Yuuichi to like her and the town. It makes her intentions look rather sinister, but I suppose that considering the themes of the route and the parallel that it makes with Yuuichi, this was done to humanize Nayuki and give her room to atone for her mistakes. Like I said, it’s a story of redemption, both for Yuuichi and Nayuki, and I don’t have a problem with that. :stuck_out_tongue:

It’s certainly not a bad song. On the one hand, it signifies that the romance is reaching its climax and the people involved are realizing something that they’ve either forgotten or put off for a while. I think it has better uses in other routes, but it’s used fine in this route. On the other hand, by today’s standards, it’s kind of cliche to have a dramatic remix of the main theme in a deliberate romance like this.

That’s an interesting theory. I may have to come back to that one later when I can actually think of something to say. (I’m writing this in the early morning and I’m not fully awake yet…) :stuck_out_tongue:

Ladies and gentlemen, the fruits of Akiko-san’s parenting. :smile:

In all seriousness, though, Akiko is a half-baked parent. She only focuses on one side of the parental coin: nurturing, which makes sense because she’s the mother. The other side is discipline, which Akiko rarely administers. She doesn’t bother waking Nayuki up to go to school, she does very little to discourage poor choice of actions or words, and…well, I’m not sure if she even told Nayuki that sex outside the bonds of marriage is a no-no. I figure it must have made Akiko herself sound like a hypocrite. It’s just speculation, though. :stuck_out_tongue:

Applying this speculation to Nayuki, Akiko’s ‘parenting’ never prepared her to be independent, to take care of herself when she’s older. Coupled with the fact that her only guide through life was totaled by a car, it’s understandable that Nayuki breaks down and stops coming to school. That’s where Yuuichi comes in. By that point in the route, he’s regularly disciplined Nayuki to wake up early, with much success, and even served as the logical side to Nayuki’s emotion-focused mindset. Both sides have their faults, some of which they share, but that’s part of what a long-term relationship does. It points out the faults in people, and gradually mends them through teamwork, nurture, and discipline. As long as the two of them understand that, I’m sure they’ll be great parents for their strange child. :smile:

YES. That totally adds to the above point. Akiko, without her husband, tried to shield her from the hardships of life, yet completely forgot to teach her about what to avoid. That, in effect, sets up Nayuki for failure right from the start. Nayuki may look innocent, but it doesn’t stop her from doing naughty things if she has no clue of what’s right or wrong to do. Again, that role is passed on to Yuuichi, through his own choice, I might add.

I think another way to pose the question is, When you’re patiently waiting for a greater happiness, how long can you wait until it stops becoming important to you? Keep in mind that humanity, in general, is a forgetful race. In pursuit of what we hold most important, we may forget why we chased it in the first place. We then question ourselves, “Is it really worth doing this?” We may give up, and aim for something less ambitious, or a ‘lesser happiness’. I think this route really embodies that sort of message as Nayuki waited seven years in the hopes of Yuuichi accepting her love, but by the time she has it within her grasp, she’s forgotten why she asked him in the first place. Her actions became more and more selfish, until she settled for a half-baked, temporary happiness that only ended up causing more problems for her and Yuuichi.

In the same vein, my second question involves forgiveness, just like you mentioned. As both Nayuki and Yuuichi’s selfish actions ended up hurting each other deeply, they had a decision to make: live with a knife stuck in the chest or do their best to heal each other’s wounds. The two of them had to understand where they were coming from and what needed fixing, leading to growth and maturity once those problems were overcome and sins forgiven.

You’re not wrong in your speculation, but you asked for my perspective, so that’s how I would have seen it. I hope this shows up in the podcast somehow… :sweat_smile:

Thank you. :sun_with_face:

I’ve been informally critiquing video games, anime and music for about three years now. My style of critiquing is more of a refinement on my previous critiques on AIR, Little Busters! and Rewrite, as I’m not quite as used to analyzing visual novels as I am with the aforementioned mediums. They’re not terribly organized and full of raw thought, but feel free to use them as templates if you wish. :slight_smile:

It’s kind of sad, though, that no one else’s critiques were worth mentioning in your post… ._.

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#31

Well, I don’t see it as something sinister. If anything, it adds to the misterious atmosphere Kanon’s common route has. I just have a feeling that someone biasing another person to like him and the town he/she lives in isn’t as strange as it may seem in this case.

I have yet to find a KEY’s piece of OST that I hate. :joy:

I’m ok with all the cliches, so long as they don’t affect the story in a way that you can foresee everything that will happen. I’ll also take your word and will pay attention to the way it is used in other routes.

Ok, now I get it. Unfortunately, as much as I understood it, I am unable to think about anything interesting to say about it. It is a theme which, as you said, is portrayed in Nayuki’s route. If I have a revelation mid-sleep and feel like I’ve reached Budhist illumination I might come back to say something more.

I pretty much agree with your whole theory except maybe for this. I’d say that they just healed themselves. Yuuichi didn’t get that much help from Nayuki to overcome his trauma (or at least, it wasn’t effective). I’d say time healed his wounds. As for Nayuki, well, I mentioned that she still wanted to depend on someone (Yuuichi in this case) so, you could say that Yuuichi healed her wounds, but it feels more like he gave her morphine: a temporal and not definitive solution.

Still, I am very fond of your “Yuuichi as a father” concept. I didn’t think of it, but now that you say it, it totally makes sense. If it weren’t for him, Nayuki would still be getting up at noon even in school days. However, I think Akiko did actually wake her up before Yuuichi arrived (even though she quickly gave up once she found herself a substitute).

Don’t get me wrong. First of all, I’m quite new to the forum so I haven’t been able to get accostumed to everyone’s writing style. Another great poster, with a very different style from yours is @Pepe. He has the abilitie to answer questions, rebate theories and more in just a few very well condensed lines.

And there are many more outstanding posters, but since @Pepe is all over this forum, he’s the first that springs to mind.

Cheers and I hope to find you in Makoto’s discussion as well!

2 Likes
#32

She’s been waiting for 7 years. Waiting for the boy who had cruelly rejected her. She was still in love with him when he finally returned. She expected him to remember, so that things could go back to how they used to be before everything went wrong.

Generally speaking, it’s sweet to see a person hold on to their feelings of love throughout years, but in situations like Nayuki’s, especially with how things ended back then, the impression starts shifting more into the “she should get over it already” zone. To be honest, I’m still not sure how I should feel about this.

What I found kinda weird is that Yuuichi didn’t spend much time regretting trampling Nayuki’s feelings underfoot 7 years ago. When you realize you’ve deeply hurt someone you love, you normally feel like a criminal, even more so if you don’t even remember why you did it (he didn’t seem to remember why he was so sad that day). Sure, logically speaking, there’s no reason to brood over a mistake you made when you were a little kid, but that’s not how you feel when it comes to matters of love. And yet, Yuuichi didn’t even think about atoning for his sin or seeking forgiveness. He skipped right over that part after apologizing briefly and went straight to pushing his feelings onto Nayuki. That seems pretty damn selfish to me. That was not an appropriate moment to confess.

It also seems unfair that Nayuki had to hold onto her feelings for years in order for her love to bear fruit, whereas Yuuichi got his way in a matter of days.

whoa whoa whoa, wait, what? A girl is about to lose pretty much the only family she ever had. How does still being sad and devastated two days after the event make her selfish or cowardly? She needs some time just to deal with the raw despair she’s drowning in. Her world just crumbled to pieces. It’s not like she’s crying because there’s nobody left to support her financially -_-
Seriously, I don’t think that kids her age are supposed to be prepared to lose their family.

I don’t think Yuuichi handled the situation well, either:

[quote=“Totoro_Futaki, post:24, topic:1968”]
Yuichi - OPEN THE DOOR NAYUKI. NAYUKI. NAYUKI !!! OPEN THE DOOR
Nayuki - Go Away… Yuichi…
Yuichi - IM COMING IN
Nayuki - Stay Away ! Please… Just leave me alone
Yuiichi - Thinks what he should do[/quote]

He’s just barging in there, saying that everything will be fine with no basis whatsoever. He’s way too pushy toward someone who’s facing their personal nightmare. You can’t expect people to just up and stop suffering right away in this kind of situation.

I don’t know what’s weirder: For someone to consider that belief to be universal in this day and age (even if it’s an old game) or expecting this particular one to be upheld in an eroge of all things. That aside, Akiko-san’s methods are simply different. As we’ve seen with Makoto (bath miso prank), Akiko doesn’t order kids to stop doing things because they are wrong when she says they are wrong. Instead, she makes them feel bad about their misdeeds and betraying her kindness. That takes a lot of benevolence and patience to pull off.

8 Likes
#33

OK, I’ve got to agree with you that maybe @EisenKoubu was a bit harsh. Loosing a member of your family surely is something hard, especially if it is your father or your mother. I’m lucky to still have them both, but I have 3 friends who have lost one of their parents in the last 6 years (they are 19 btw). From what I’ve seen, I’d say Nayuki overreacted. Yet, I don’t want to sound like an expert because as I said, I haven’t experienced it myself. Also, I guess people might react to that in many different ways.

I think the fragment you quoted was from the anime. In the VN at least I don’t remember him screaming NAYUKI OPEN THE DOOR. NAYUKI!!!

But honestly, Nayuki hasn’t eaten for a whole day. I think his attitude is completely understandable. While you say that Nayuki’s depression is justified, I’d say that so are Yuuichi’s actions.

That is surely true, however, I think that what both @EisenKoubu and I are referring to is that this method seems not to be all that effective. I mean, Makoto’s attitude is far from the one of a teenager, she is more like a kid. That’s why this method works.

Anyway, the point I wanted to make is that this method, doesn’t prevent mistakes, it prevents people from repeating mistakes. Therefore, Akiko’s ways are incapable of preventing major mistakes which might only happen once in a lifetime but might have an effect that will last for the rest of one’s life.

In this fashion, horrible outcomes of some actions are not taught, leading to Nayuki living her life happily thinking that everything will work out and no horrible things will happen.

To finish up, thanks for posting your thoughts on Nayuki’s route. It’s always nice to have a diversity of opinions. I’d also like to ask you what your favorite track of the OST is so far. Also, remember to write your thoughts on Kanon’s metaphors like the snow bunny, the strawberry shortcake or any other you might find (far fetched speculations accepted too! :kgoha:).

1 Like
#34

Part of criticism is questioning the logic of actions made or words spoken in a fictional work from one’s own unique perspective. I don’t expect people in real life to uphold the same beliefs I do, nor do I expect them to carry those beliefs into their artistic works. After all, the Kazoku Collective regulations imply that ideas, not people, should be the subject of criticism. And if I were looking at this as simply an eroge, I wouldn’t be analyzing it at all. I despise eroge because they naturally conflict with my belief that sex is a sacred act specifically and divinely reserved for the bonds of marriage.

That aside, my personal impressions also lead me to believe that Akiko, despite her impossibly benevolent demeanor, still lacks the ability to properly discipline her daughter so that she doesn’t get into messes like the one she wormed her way into in the first place. It doesn’t mean she’s a bad mother, only a flawed one. I mean, what parent is perfect? I do agree that she’s doing an impressive job as a single mother, but even so, a single mom can’t carry the entire weight of parenthood on her shoulders without at least stumbling in some places.

I can relate to this. I’m glad to still have my family with me, although I’ve had pets die before. I’ve been to funerals, I’ve seen the pain on people’s faces when they’ve talked about deceased loved ones. But I think the emotional disconnect I felt at her mother’s accident wasn’t out of inexperience, it was out of poor investment. I don’t have much of a reason to care about Akiko because she’s practically Jesus. She isn’t very relatable, does very little to advance the story on her part and doesn’t have an interesting character beyond, perhaps, her ‘special jam’. So, it’s a little hard to care, especially on the grounds that I know that on the third day she will rise again through Key Magic.

Not to say that you’re wrong. Frankly, the reason I’m the least bit harsh on all my criticisms of this route is because of my deep analytical perception of Nayuki, making this event in my eyes more of a karmic comeuppance to drive in the moral of the story, which is fine in my eyes but perhaps not someone else’s. So, in the spirit of criticism, I agree to disagree.

Exactly. Remember the times when Akiko questioned Nayuki about what ‘strange things’ Yuuichi was saying, and she said it was nothing? Nayuki prefers avoiding conflict as much as Akiko does, but this passive approach doesn’t do much to emphasize how horrible the consequences will be for a single poor decision. Besides, as I said, humanity is a forgetful race. It’s only a matter of time before ignorance for the sake of innocence voids the question of ‘Why? For what reason should I not do this? Why am I wasting my time?’ from the mind.

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#35

Oh Nayuki, such a sweet, loving, sleepy girl. The brightest part of her route is her herself. I really love her character even though there isn’t that much to it. She’s just a sweet girl who can’t help but be incredibly sleepy. It starts off really well with them getting close to each other and Yuuichi then buys her a marble? Nayuki sure has a strange idea for a present for herself.

Yuuichi finally starts to remember his past with Nayuki after she uses her previously gifted marble to restore the snow bunny they find and she clues him in on it being important. Snow bunnies don’t have any luck I suppose, one being destroyed by Yuuichi years before and them finding a crumbled one by their school. Why must you hate snow bunnies Kanon?

Now flash forward and Yuuichi takes her back to the station and apologizes to her for what he had done 7 years before. I was so glad Yuuichi did something like this because Nayuki had taken his response as him hating the town and her for the past 7 years before he returned. I feel this is the highlight of the route and where a major theme of the route comes in to the spotlight: forgiveness. She bears the wound Yuuichi gave her for the past 7 years but she still forgave Yuuichi and brings herself to smile for him and be herself, allowing their relationship to grow into something more.

I was very surprised when they actually became lovers. I didn’t think they would take that step but lo and behold, it happened. I was also surpised how afterwards they just treat each other as if nothing had happened. Then again they didn’t give much time to reflect on it with the accident coming up. Also, I have to say that Nayuki getting up before Yuuichi and repeating what she has the alarm clock say to wake him up in the morning was so sweet and endearing. I absolutely loved it.[quote=“Totoro_Futaki, post:24, topic:1968”]
It also felt sad, how Akiko’s brutal accident didn’t affect him in any way when he heard about it. To think that he’d at least be a bit heartbroken over his own aunts accident
[/quote]
My personal reasoning for this is that he is trying to stay strong so he can take care of and set an example for Nayuki during his little time left to show Nayuki that she can’t just lock herself away. She is going to have to face the fact that her mother isn’t there to take care of her and that she needs to learn to stand on her own before he has to leave.

That being said, I find it very interesting that the date disappears after the accident. Do you believe it is meant to signify anything? I believe it’s suppose to show the eternity that life must feel like to both Yuuichi and Nayuki, waiting to hear that aunt Akiko is going to be alright. Those few days felt somewhat depressing, wondering if Akiko was going to make it or not without a word from the hospital. I felt so bad for Nayuki, losing what was the only family she ever had and the only person she could count on; not knowing whether her mother is going to make it.

This is where I feel the other major theme of the route comes in to play:Togetherness. Yuuichi knows that he can’t afford to leave Nayuki alone but with her avoiding him, he doesn’t want to be alone either and chooses to keep going to school for that reason. I believe that if Nayuki had come out of her room, Yuuichi would have stayed home and tried to comfort her to the best of his ability like he does on the day before he leaves, even though he was absolutely abysmal at it.

This right here is the other highlight of this route. I was caught off guard by this and it’s such a beautiful message. I’m so glad Nayuki found the courage to go to the station and that Yuuichi waited the entire day, hoping that she would come to see him. Yume no Ato playing in the background was such a great choice as well. Nayuki keeping the message on the alarm after that is so adorable too. There is one thing that bugs me though. Do you think aunt Akiko knows the full extent of Yuuichi and Nayuki’s relationship? Either she just doesn’t know they are lovers or she does and either doesn’t say anything because she is so kind and accepting or she just lets them have their own privacy.

All in all, I enjoyed it but feels very flat. Like the impact it’s going for doesn’t reach the heights it was intended for. Especially with how quickly the final week passed by. It became hard to sit and empathize with a lot of what’s going on as it doesn’t really get reflected on and lasts such a short amount of time in comparison to the rest of the route, of which not a lot actually goes on. Nayuki herself really saved this route from being a complete bore since all her quirks really struck the right notes with me. She’s a very endearing character and I’m thankful for that.

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#36

Bookclubs really don’t fit on my plate right now, so I’ll just throw in a small thing to think about. The story in the present day and 7 years ago mirror each other. Yuuichi was sad and rejected Nayuki crushing the bunny in the process. After the accident, Nayuki shuts herself inside her room rejecting everything. This also relates to the parallel between the bunny and the cake brought up by @EisenKoubu. The bunny is thrown to the ground by Yuuichi, and the cake is indirectly destroyed by Nayuki(It’s a stretch but she blames herself for it at least). The pictures are obviously made to be similar with the crayon style and matching color palette’s of white, red, green. I think connecting them through repetition rather than symbolism is more easily digestible. And in the end, Yuuichi ties it up by finishing the whole thing in the place where it started. This of course breaks the cycle as young Nayuki didn’t manage to bring Yuuichi out of his slump. Repetition is a big part of kanon -hence the name- so what do people think of the circular nature of the plot?

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#37

Oh, that’s pretty obvious, yet I didn’t notice it until I read your post. If I remember well, in the anime, they kind of justify the title by saying that at a cafe, the music playing was “Canon in D Major” from Pachelbel. I didn’t find this scene on my playthrough, so the plot circularity / event repetition is a great way to justify it. Also, I think that Air gives this sort of feel too: (Air vague spoilers) there were a cursed man and woman, whose curse was inherited by another man or woman in the next generation (very vague explanation).

So maybe, during KEY’s early period, they wanted to make emphasis on this particular event repetition topic.

I’d say she does know, even though she rarely asks direct questions to anybody, Akiko gave the feeling that she knew what was exactly happening around her.

I wouldn’t say that there is any intended meaning. The date usually disappears once you have entered one character’s good ending route. It happens other KEY games. Still, we are free to speculate about it, so I’ll say that it disappears because after the accident, both Nayuki and Yuuichi loose their context. They no longer know what is eactly happening, and not showing the date might indicate disorientation.

I would say so too, however, this topic is quite generic so I didn’t give it a whole lot of importance. If anything, you could say that what makes this topic a bit unique in this route is the fact that both Nayuki and Yuuichi feel lonely despite living in the same house and loving each other. Still, this situation doesn’t last long so there is no time for the Visual Novel to solidly impact the reader.

Despite the fact that I might give the impresion that, for me, Nayuki is a stupid, childlike and overconfident character, I also think that she is very funny and lovable. Her silly jokes and voice intonation made the route.

#38

And neither would anyone else here. Here’s the thing: It’s an eroge for marketing reasons. The H-scenes are not related to the story or the true nature of the characters, which you can tell by how out of place they feel. Kanon is not the kind of game where the heroines run around telling dirty jokes and talking about how badly they want their cherry popped all the damn time. We’ve discussed this issue over and over in the H-scenes topic.
My point is: it makes little sense to blame any of the characters for the existence of those scenes.

At the very least, she definitely knows about Nayuki’s feelings, since this girl has been in love for almost a decade and is really easy to read. For example, if you refuse to let Nayuki show you around school, you get a dialogue with Kaori where she reveals that the moment Yuuichi entered the classroom for the first time, Nayuki was smiling brighter than ever before, or something along those lines.

“You’re terrible. …to say something like that now… it’s not fair… Even if you suddenly say something like that, I don’t know…”

This one’s really complicated. If I let my inner pessimist speak, I’d say it takes less than a year to stop caring about people you have no contact with. Time is really cruel in that regard. So in this particular scenario, Nayuki’s perseverance is definitely extraordinary. On the other hand, us humans tend to get really hung up on dreams. Trying and failing is discouraging enough to stop us from dreaming most of the time, but simply waiting for our happiness to come to us on its own is way easier.
If you grow to hate something you used to love… argh, I don’t know! On one hand, if hatred wins over love, it’s because the hatred is stronger. On the other hand, if the hatred originated from love, it should be possible to dig that love back up from its core.
However, in this particular case, Nayuki never did grow to hate Yuuichi. She welcomed him with open arms when he returned, hoping he’ll regain his memories. And most importantly, she only blamed herself for getting rejected back then. She apologized and she wanted to try again the next day. If there is any part of Yuuichi that Nayuki ever hated, it’s his tendency of disregarding her or not keeping his word. What was the harshest thing Nayuki ever said prior to Akiko-san’s accident? It’s “Liar.”

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#39

Yay! Nayuki route is check~

I liked this route if for no other reason than I was fangirling over Nayuki a lot and it was a fluffy romance. I’m a fan of the spacy character archetype that really is just looking the world a bit differently and has different priorities - Nayuki doesn’t fit this perfectly, but the start of her route is Yuuichi basically figuring out she doesn’t really always wear her thoughts on her sleeve.

This circular nature of the plot is generally Kanon’s greatest strength for me. Most of the strongest points come from when the story uses Yuuichi’s reliving past events in attempt to do better than his childhood self. I would say that because some of the parallels in this route are a bit of stretch it actually detracted from the tension and emotional heights I was able to reach. Between the strawberry cake not really being something Nayuki ruined with her own hands, and that Yuuichi waiting for a day at the station doesn’t really emotionally equal the 7 years Nayuki was waiting, I ended up finding the sentiments sweet and enjoyable, but not fully satisfying.

My favorite part of the cycle is that Yuuichi leaves the snow covered town 7 years ago, forgetting his time there, and in a lot of ways it feels like the town and time was frozen all that time, because he returns to the snow covered town with all of the things he left unresolved were still problems frozen in time in people’s hearts. It isn’t until the cycle is broken - like when Nayuki went to Yuuichi at the station - that they break through stagnate frozen winter and it becomes spring and he gets to make it to the epilogue!

Yeah, Aunt Akiko knows everything. Seriously - I find it impossible to think she is not aware - but she would only talk to them about it if they asked her about it directly.

My take is more that apologies don’t really fix everything, but forgiving someone can be the foundation of moving forward. She forgave Yuuichi, but that didn’t change the fact that they were in a new relationship she was surely still feeling out when her mom was suddenly on the brink of death. There was not enough there for her to just know she can lean on Yuuichi - so with the balance of her happy life on the line she felt unsupported and withdrew. The burden was then on Yuuichi to prove that he would wait for her - which was really brought redemtion for Yuuichi’s past mistake and allowed Nayuki to emotionally feel like she can depend on him.

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#40

I honestly don’t have much to say about the route itself. I like the circular nature of the plot, I think the romance is believable and sweet, and it’s a good first route for the story because it doesn’t delve too deep into the mysteries of the setting, leaving those for other routes to explore. I will say that I love the kiss by the station with the “Nayuki…I can’t make miracles happen…” speech. That is basically like a straight up wedding vow, and I think it really works well.

As for Nayuki’s character, though, there’s definitely a lot to say. First off, Nayuki is very popular. Like, just judging by the amount of fan art of each character, she’s arguably more popular than Ayu. She’s got a lot of interesting quirks: she sleeps in late, she’s speaks really slowly, she loves to run, she loves cats even if she’s allergic to them, she regularly states the obvious, and she’s gullible. Add to that the fact that she’s the first character we meet, she’s a spurned childhood friend, and she’s got some family ties to the MC, and you’ve got a recipe for ultimate moe!

Nayuki has a lot of attachments to snow. It’s the second character in her name, she says that she loves it, and our introduction to the character is her commenting that Yuuichi is covered in it. Her character song is even titled “Shoujo no Yuki (Snow Girl).” And just like the snow, Nayuki is an ever present part of Kanon, our anchor in the common route and serving a supporting role in pretty much every character’s arc.

Speaking of Nayuki’s character song, “Shoujo no Yuki” is a very upeat track, almost relentlessly cheerful. A very good match with her character, at least outside of the drama of her own route. The arrangement that’s found as a bonus track at the end of the OST is also a nice touch, and I think it’s the only arrangement that’s actually found on the OST itself that isn’t in the game.

All-in-all, while Nayuki’s route might not have any really amazing revelations or stray too far from the common route in general, I think Nayuki is one of the more compelling characters in the visual novel.

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#41

Prologue

Nayuki’s route starts as soon as the VN starts, Yuichi teasing her, being and overall dick, not knowing he’s actually really worrying the girl who’s genuinely afraid he’s completely forgotten her. That’s an opening scene right there, immediately tying into one of the last scenes of a route while also properly establishing itself as an opening scene. My dick is frankly rock solid.

January 8th

“Hey bro do you remember this path hey bro you haven’t just known me for a few days HEY BRO REMEMBER?”

Nayuki fishing asap and hard for Yuichi to remember things.

January 19th

“Feels like a date to me EY LUICHI?” “Feels like siblings to me”

Wheeeeeee. Nayuki making him buy something for her because that’s what you d-d-do on a d-d-dato, Nayuki really is good at this subtle implication thing. Yuichi is also great at not noticing it at all.

January 21st

That said ‘you probably forgot because you were sad wink’ is the subtle starting to loosen up, going for a more direct assault, directly provoking a memory, probably because she’s too tired to give a shit.

January 22nd

Kitaaaaaaaaa, for a Nayuki only playthough, this day marks the debut of the wonderful Fuyu no Hanabi(Winter Fireworks), this music is a special little thing, generally linked only to flashbacks, although the scene itself is entirely in the present, you’d think it seems out of place, but the snow bunny is incredibly important to the past between these two, being present when they last saw each other. To Yuichi, and first time players, the scene and music with it might not seem like much, but when you’ve got the full picture, the music playing here is a fantastic nod and very subtle foreshadowing to thinks to come.

Not done with new music this day however, as the couple step onto the balcony for the first playing of Kaze o matta hi(The Day I Waited For The Wind), the atmosphere of this scene is fantastic, the dark blue colours, the dramatic slow music, it is ill fitting for the extremely casual conversation the two are having, but the combination of it and the atmosphere makes it feel like so much more.

But this is the day that keeps on giving, and rightly so, at this point there is no turning back, you’re in Nayuki’s route. Winter Fireworks comes out once again for it’s true purpose, a flashback scene. The sketchy CG being the only image is great, it invokes seeing the memory from Yuichi’s eyes, as Nayuki patters on about snow bunnies, before she finally gets to the point with ASA DAYOOOOO

(From this point onward, I will no longer mention dates, we’re in Nayuki’s route)

Nayuki’s horoscope tells her her luck will be bad for the next week. I concur. Her mom getting hit by a car is pretty shit luck.

The next balcony scene is once again wonderful, Yuichi pretending he’s Tomoya and hating the town, the snow, while Nayuki tells him upfront that she loves these things. And then Yuichi tells himself upfront that he loves this narcoleptic girl. And this is where the extremely short routes of Kanon rears its head, maybe people, myself included, would think that this is too early for a bombshell like that.

Damned if it isn’t good to have that followed by Nayuki saying the same thing in the flash back immediately after though. Too bad Yuichi is a fucking savage and smashes the shit out of her bunny, and feelings. It’s with the full flashback you realize how horrible his teasing is in the Prologue, how her last memory of the guy is him ignoring her and killing her bunny, and he comes back only to pretend he doesn’t even know her name.

The conffespologize is good shit, but better is the next balcony scene, with the music finally really suiting the content of the scene, and Nayuki’s laughably weak requests for Ichigo Sundaes to make up for it. It’s true to the simple nature of the character while also supporting how she does love him enough to not be mad for 7 years of nothing.

OOPS H-SCENE. The H-scenes of this game are a magical thing, they’re absolutely hilarious, I choose to always play some more fitting music over them, the theme for this playthough will be Metal Gear Rising Revengence music, the track for Nayuki’s H-scene I have chosen to be Collective Consciousness. Some of my favorite quotes from this one are:

“AY YO NAYUKI GET NAKED” “BUY ME FOOD” “K SURE” “AIGHT”.
“I want to replace the pain I’ve caused her all these years(with my dick)”

Nobody is going to say the having Nayuki quote the alarm clock scene is top tier stuff. Shortly followed by Yuichi calling her fat.

Hello Ayu what are you doing here this is Nayuki’s route I’ll get to you later.

We need some despair, lets hit mom with a car. The scenes following this are good, Toudo Kougen playing as Yuichi just kind of lives though his day, and the realization that Nayuki actually broke the day after, leading up to Yuichi entering her room.

“…do miracles happen, Yuichi?”

He doesn’t answer this question, she doesn’t even press him for an answer, but it reeks of Kanon. All references to miracles in this route so far have been in reference to Nayuki getting up early, someone she’s always dismissed as not a miracle in the slightest. But when a real miracle is needed, Yuichi can’t even think of a sentence. Not right away.

The last day begins and oh baby is it good, deliberately invoking that glorious prologue, the skys which had been clear for the past two days are thick with snow, Yume no Ato plays for the first time in a long while, the scene is the same. The parallel is wonderful, someone up there mentioned how Kanon likes to repeat(I’ve found my time short as of late, I’ve not been able to full read all the posts of this thread) and this is yet another example of that, for the big finale scene to so deliberately and effectively invoke the very first scene is fantastic.

The glorious Alarm Clock that’s been with us the entire game saves the day, it’s very interesting that Yuichi ends up saying he can’t do miracles, going back on the absolute certainty he told Nayuki that Akiko would get better, and instead focusing on what if she doesn’t, focusing on being a reason for Nayuki to smile again. Kanon may truly be a story of miracles, but this route certainly supports that even if you need one, you can go on if it doesn’t happen.

Nayuki Epilogue

Umaretate no Kaze(A Newborn Wind) is some good stuff, I don’t believe it shows up anywhere but Epilogues, and of course, being remix of the ED theme it shouldn’t have to, the Kanon soundtrack I find, while weaker than a lot of other Key stuff, is certainly fantastically used in game. Yuichi makes one last reference to miracles, with him examples being such simple things like Nayuki’s smile. Stuff like that makes Nayuki the perfect starting route, the miracles are simple, and the route heavily invokes the first scene.

Nayuki’s Character

Nayuki is wonderful, the dozy cheerful ditz is generally a good character, her personality shines extremely strong but despite all that, she’s incredibly simple. Along with it’s Atmosphere another thing Kanon really shines at is it’s Character and Nayuki is a great example of that. The route is much like her character, it’s extremely barebones and basic. Unfortunately this does have it’s flaws, because I have nothing more to say about Nayuki.

Akiko’s Character

Good Morning Yuichi-san.

Akiko is extreeeemely bare in the VN and I know you guys have had a bit of a fussle and bussle over her up there. Akiko is simple and likable, much like her daughter, unfortunately she lacks the screentime to truly be any more than that.

Overall

As I said in Nayuki’s Character, the route is extremely simple and barebones, focusing more on the character interactions than any ongoing situation, the drama is a 15 minute ride at the end at best, while it suits Nayuki, and like I said, makes it a fantastic first route, I do think it leaves a lot to be desired as a story in general. I do like it but ultimately it’s just never been a huge thing to me.

Sorry for the fairly bare post and lack of responding to anyone, you guys have said a lot of things I’d want to say because I’m so behind and lacking in time hopefully I can bring more to future route discussions.

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