Kanon - Makoto Sawatari Route & Character Discussion

Having finished the route recently I can say that I have the same opinion of this as I did when I read it way back when. It wasn’t very well-written but the emotional impact was quite powerful. While I am leaving a good number of my thoughts for the podcast, there is one thing I would like to bring up: Yuuichi’s character development.

I honestly felt that Yuuichi’s development was severely lacking in this route. Some may argue "oh but he changed from being a big dickface to Makoto into a tender and caring lover/father figure/whatever you may call it… But Yuuichi was also only being an ass because Makoto was being a little bitch the entire common route. In that sense, I can’t really say that Yuuichi’s personality changed as much as his reaction to Makoto’s personality changed; and that’s only natural.

If anything, the one to undergo the most character development is Amano, and despite her short appearance it the route, they handle it very well. That epilogue definitely shows just how much development she has undergone from the moment you meet her just because of how she decided to become friends with Makoto. But, with that being a somewhat minor point of the story, I can’t quite praise it for that.

1 Like

Sure, that’s completely normal, but (Nayuki’s route spoilers) Nayuki was in a similar position and didn’t even go and visit Yuuichi (she knows where he lives since she said that she wrote some letters to him) . So what is it that made a difference.

This^. Amano was such an interesting character in this route and I would have loved to see a route of hers in the VN.

We are never told that Makoto knew where he lived during his seven-year hiatus, and if I remember correctly, he did promise he would come back, and she trusted him more than enough to wait for so long. After seven years, with growing impatience, she decided she wanted to meet him faster. Similar to Nayuki’s route, she discarded a greater happiness to achieve a goal of hers faster, with fatal consequences. Also (and this is just a personal theory of mine, don’t take it to heart) perhaps part of the deal that turned Makoto into a human ensured that she would be able to see Yuuichi again somehow, through manipulation of fate or something. You could just broil it down to “It’s Key Magic,” and it would probably be a better explanation as to how Makoto was able to meet Yuuichi after so long.

In the hopes of beating some people to the punch, I found some information on kitsune, or foxes, and the legends that surround them.

Amano refers to them as ‘Youko’; an uncommon term referring to fox spirits that can be easily interchanged with ‘kitsune’. They first appeared in Japan in the seventeenth century, and unlike Chinese fox spirits, they were quickly accepted as part of Japan’s official religion. There are some differences between Chinese and Japanese fox spirits, but I’ll focus on some of the details on kitsune that I found that bore some resemblance to the events of this route.

Kitsune are said to possess significant intelligence, perhaps beyond that of humans, and blessed with a long lifespan and some magical power. Despite being called fox spirits, they are not ghosts; instead the term refers to fox-like creatures with supernatural abilities.

Kitsune may take human form, particularly beautiful women. Their transformations are not limited by age or gender, and they can duplicate the appearance of a specific person, (anime spoilers) which makes the part of the anime’s ending with Makoto suddenly appearing to help Yuuichi make a whole lot more sense. A common belief during medieval times was that a woman encountered alone, especially at dusk or night, was likely a fox.

In folklore, kitsune are often presented as tricksters, either out of their own amusement or for purely malevolent purposes. They often play tricks on people who are overtly proud, boastful or greedy, but some stoop as low as abusing the poor and humble. They target men the most, using women as vessels of possession instead.

Alternatively, kitsune are portrayed as lovers or even wives. These stories tend to involve a young human male and a kitsune who takes the form of a human woman. The outcome is, more often than not, marriage between the two, with the kitsune woman being a faithful and loving wife until the husband discovers the kitsune’s true nature and forces her to leave. In some cases, the husband wakes from the whole ordeal as if from a dream, and returns to his family in shame.

There are far more interesting details out there about kitsune, but those are the ones I found that bore some similarities to Makoto’s route. Maeda certainly did his homework, it seems. :3

2 Likes

Just before the podcast I wanted to join in the Kitsune discussion.

From what I looked up, pretty much everything @EisenKoubu is true, however I’d like to point out that according to my research, those kinds of “bad kitsune” are not popular in the Japanese folklore, but rather in the Korean and Chinese ones. So there goes my theory about Makoto actually wanting to punish Yuuichi for his rather cold attitude towards others and his tendency to bully everyone who seems to be friendly to him.

I also found interesting that, according to the tales, these foxes are able to transform into humans only after something in between 50 and 100 years, so that would make Makoto quite old. Also, foxes are considered to be pretty wise and intelligent, so it strikes me that Makoto would give up her life to be just some time with Yuuichi. Or perhaps, this just adds more value to her sacrifice.

As a side note. I saw that kitsune appear to have a white orb resembling a white pearl. That orb is the source of their magic and they die if they are appart from it for a long time. Also, if people find these orbs, they may return them to their owners and expect a favor in return. This concept seems to kind of (CLANNAD spoilers) CLANNAD’s light orbs which grant small wishes to those who posses them.

I strongly recommend you to read more about them by doing some research on the Internet. They explain a lot of facts that are used in many Visual Novels, anime, and other Japanese media, so I think you would benefit greatly from it!

1 Like

One interesting we thought about during the podcast, and we were surprised that nobody talked about it here, is the ending. We suddenly see a CG of Makoto appearing in the meadow together with Piro:

So we wanna ask you: What the fuck just happened???

My own interpretation is that it is a literal continuation of Yuuichi’s last line saying “I know what I would wish for” and goes on to show his wish… But what do you guys think? Is there something more to it?

We also didn’t see much talk of Kitsune folklore here! Are many people here familiar with Kitsune folklore and how it relates back to this route?

One thing in particular I’m interested in learning where ‘The Fox and the Grapes’ comes from. Is there some kind of myth about foxes and grapes? All I get from google is hentai.

Okay, in a little after the podcast but in none the less.

I was kind of disappointed by this route I guess. I hate Makoto - I have no interest in brats and pranks. The thing is, her deterioration in both the Toei and KyoAni anime still normally destroy me and in the VN I was ‘meh’ about the whole thing. Part of it might be me not having put in the voice patch - unlike how I think that helped me enjoy Nayuki’s route the application of the music and slow scenes was just kind of dull, and I felt like I lost a lot of impact from not hearing the vocal deterioration and only having Yuuichi’s description about it.

So in the KyoAni anime there is an old crush and a lot more information about the fox and Yuuichi’s time together that did a lot to flesh out this arc - are they really made up for the anime? In the VN I didn’t really feel that strongly about how much the fox loved Yuuichi when he was a kid or how devastating the separation was. Abandoned pets are a pretty good way to punch my feels and I felt like the story gave me little reason to be invested in the relationship between Makoto and Yuuichi.

The sex scene was weird. I didn’t really mean to trigger it, and like, with Nayuki she says things like how she doesn’t want it but still gives Yuuichi the go ahead (and I could go on a separate kind of tangent about that sort of sex scene Makoto doesn’t really do this - she shows up barely able to talk, they have quick sex outside in the cold because that is what Yuuichi “wants to give her as a human” or something like that. Then they try to frame the relationship as more fatherly or brotherly…ugu

One scene that strikes me reading it is the way the veil gets blown away after the ceremony - as if even the wind is saying that the two of them are not going to be allowed their forever and nature and Makoto’s end is unstoppable. the image of her belled hand on the grass was perfect way to punctuate the emotional finale.

It’s one of Aesop’s fables

It is pretty appropriate for Makoto’s character - consistently through her story she belittles the things she cannot have but wants - such as the fun purikura experience, hanging out with Yuuichi, etc. Yuuichi himself can kind of be thought of as “grapes” hanging out of her reach and she spends so much time resenting him for it.

4 Likes

I can’t help reading that fable like the fox is a tsundere. 「It’s not like I wanted to you anyway, stupid grapes.」 This makes too much sense.

Also along with the bat one this makes 2 of these fables in Key stories. There are probably more.

4 Likes

Bat one?

This one is in LB! http://www.bartleby.com/17/1/24.html

2 Likes

I just finished reading Makoto’s route after re-reading once again and I notice some points that I might have missed before. Of course, Makoto was really a spoiled brat and always love to cause trouble to Yuuichi and at first I didn’t like her back then because of all the mischief and annoyance she had brought upon him. It almost felt like Yuuichi was like a father figure to her and wanted to discipline through her actions and have to explain that doing things like that can be very hurtful to others. I can’t really blame him for that but sometimes he can be very harsh to her that even Akiko had to advise him that he needs to be gentle on her because she is a girl.

Throughout her route, I wanted to mentioned that Yuuichi had stated when he dreamt of the Makoto he knew that was a different ‘Makoto’ that he had loved before but I was not sure if it was really explained who that was and that he said that the current Makoto might have been friends with her. Another thing was when Amano had said that she was a fox-spirit and told the legend about the ‘kitsune’ and where they had previously lived before, there was a text that mentioned about Feleya Hill but originally it was called Monomi Hill because of where the fox-spirits had resided and she said that they loved to cause bad luck to the villages that at once had been many problems in the past. Anyway, I think I understand why Amano had mentioned this to him about why Yuuichi would suffer, even though knowing herself that it was going to painful for him in the end. It was hard re-reading this again because of the emotional state that Makoto was going through and I felt just like Yuuichi that the only way to ease her suffering was to try to make the best out of it and not have any regrets. The fact that miracles were presented once again signify that as Amano had stated was only a transient miracle and it would only hold on for a while and disappear, and also the fact that miracle of what Makoto had went through could be worthwhile if only to meet Yuuichi again despite the pain he had caused her.

Overall, the scene that really got me the feels once again was the very scene with them both playing with each other at the hill as the end grew near and it was Makoto’s wish of wanting to ‘get married’ in order to for to them to be together. Near the end, I thought it was amazing how Amano had changed from her personality when you had first met her that she didn’t want to involve herself with anyone and how distant and unfeeling back then to the person that is able to smile for a long time and imagining where candy could fall out of the sky and how they both laughed was really heart-warming and endearing. I also wanted to talk about that ending that @Pepe had mentioned about that last CG where it did seem confusing about whether Makoto was either alive or not. I kind of want to say that when Makoto wished for spring to always last forever that there would come to be a time when she would come back and play with Yuuichi and the others once again. I don’t really have a real explanation for it but that what I think for the moment as Yuuichi would have love to see her and welcome her back. I would rate this route a 4 out of 5.

I liked this route in the anime more than the VN (don’t hate me :confounded:) and I’m not sure why.

First off I want to say the pacing was great. Nothing abrupt or confusing, except for the scene with Makoto dropping the cat off the bridge. If I remember correctly, they PLAYED HAPPY MUSIC WHEN THE CAT FELL. LIKE NOOOO. Y THO. There was one part where Makoto was arguing that the cat was wild and was not meant to be domesticated (or something along those lines) and I thought that this represented her mentality at the time, a strong, independent fox who don’t need no man. However towards the end she became very docile and wanted to spent all her time with Yuuichi, which seemed very “domesticated”. Apparently foxes can only become domesticated over years of selective breeding (click here), so as Makoto regresses to her fox mindset, she is slowly becoming a house fox(I wasn’t really going anywhere with this I guess).

I rate 3/5. It was pretty solid in my opinion, but didn’t really grab my interest.

2 Likes

I don’t actually know what happens (even I don’t know what the heck is going on here), but the CG of Makoto sleeping in the meadow together with Piro (said meadow being where she met Yuuichi for the first time) is likely what Yuuichi would wish for and tells Amano what his wish is. Of course, we don’t know if Makoto has come back or not. Is she back to life? The CG doesn’t make things clear. What about you, Pepe?

So, I don’t know the VN at all so I have only the 2006 anime to go on ( get used to that disclaimer, I’ll be using it frequently).

Just let me say Goddam you Key for making me like this sort of thing that I would have dismissed until recently as of no interest to me. Like others I couldn’t really stand Makoto early on although it was funny to see Yuuichi’s reactions, but in the epis 7 - 10 I gradually warmed towards the character more. Even though I’m not that empathetic to animals obviously the drop the kitty scene was a bit WTF?! I guess that the VN takes longer to develop the changes as it all felt a bit rushed from “I think I see what is going on here…” to “Ah yes, I was right”. Plus the fact that Amano seemed shoehorned in very conveniently.

Makoto’s rapid deterioration did feel like an analogy to that of a difficult but much loved pet, and I got the feels of trying to make their last days happy and about what we’d think they’d want (easier with Makoto of course as she had been able to express it). The “marriage” is kind of touching and I can’t make up my mind whether the end is “real” or just showing what Yuuichi hoped for. Well I did get a bit weepy anyway.

I really can’t imagine any way in which H scenes would add anything good to this! If I could give 3.5 then I would but as I expect this not to be one of the stronger routes I’ll have to settle for 3 albeit a good 3.

1 Like

When I first read Makoto’s route many years ago, I was not a fan of the first half but well enough enjoyed the latter half. This time, surprisingly, that opinion holds true. Now that I am better equipped as a reader, I feel much better about tackling this again.

So the first impression Makoto gives off is pretty bad, in my opinion. She is a girl who hates Yuuichi but can’t remember why. That sets the stage of every encounter by forcing me to ask why I should care about scenes with Makoto. She seemingly has no goal or motivation behind her until you find out much later on, and I think that’s a flaw.

Until the route starts proper at the scene where Makoto drops Piro onto the freeway (an action I am still not a fan of, regardless of what came from it in terms of characterization), this route is nothing. Makoto is a one-joke character who does nothing but play stupid pranks in every scene. I absolutely hated that. It doesn’t foreshadow anything, it is just there to waste my time and dislike Makoto. One scene of this is enough to get the point of this character trait across; anything afterwards is filler. It’s much like the Lucia in the common route of Rewrite, and I wish it was condensed or even taken out, as her being a prankster isn’t even relevant to her actual character.

Once Makoto is finally held accountable for her actions, then the route actually starts. This is where it gets good. I really like Amano’s role in the story, despite being a carbon copy of Akane from ONE. This part really sets up Yuuichi as a character well, mostly in the 2006 anime. The idea of the kitsune? legend is such a solid basis for a Key route, I really wish it was done more in other things. Perhaps it would have rounded out a rather foundationless route from AIR.

From then on, Yuuichi fulfilling Makoto’s wish of marriage is great. It is the first crosshair on the theme of coping with loss that Kanon brings to the table, and while being a rather stock plot at this point it polishes its mould well. There’s not much else for me to say here. I’m glad the story actually takes the risk of bittersweetly separating Makoto and Yuuichi at the end, rather than bring her back and undermine the impact she left behind.

All in all, I like this route. I wish Makoto wasn’t so annoying towards the beginning, but that’s what the skip button’s for I suppose.

3 Likes

Oh how easy to overlook this as we go thought the zany pranks for the umpteenth time…

I’ve been musing over the song title Fuyu no Hanabi, which as gorgeous as it is hardly evokes the vision of the flashes and bangs of fireworks. I discovered this

https://www.tofugu.com/japan/kitsune-yokai-fox/
The marriages of foxes (to each other, rather than unsuspecting humans) are said to account for two odd natural phenomena. One is kitsune-bi (狐火, meaning “fox-fire”). This is what’s called will o’ the wisp in English – mysterious flickering lights seen at night in natural areas like forests and especially wet places like bogs and marshes.

Could the melody of the tune be trying to evoke the image of “fox-fire”?

Nope! Because it’s used for almost all flashback scenes and has a much stronger association with Ayu than Makoto.

Okay, I’m overthinking it then!

This route ended up being my favorite route. Makoto is really endearing, albeit annoying to read at times. She had me going “auu” anytime things inconvenienced me for a couple days. But the ideas of acceptance and family presented in this story are really well done. Not to mention it’s absolutely heartbreaking, but it didn’t feel “bought and paid for” if you know what I mean. It felt like it was only so heartbreaking because of the acceptance and feeling ideas being recurrent and especially well written. I feel like they wrote Makoto to be pitiable, especially during the later half of the story. But they didn’t do it in a way that diminishes her character. Because she was pitiable, but not weak.

I felt the relationship between Yuuichi and Makoto was really nice, but the element of romance did sort of weaken it, in my opinion. Playing the Standard Edition, this H scene where they consummate the romance didn’t feel like it was timed very well, and felt more like it was just sort of included in there because visual novels had to have H scenes as a standard, or something like that. But even without that scene, I feel this route would have been a lot better without a romance. By the time the actual romance in the relationship begins, Makoto is not really in a state to be romanced. It didn’t make a whole lot of sense, and I couldn’t really get into it.

But that hardly detracted from the route as a whole. I feel it executed its moments wonderfully, delivered its messages wonderfully, and reinforced its themes wonderfully.

5 Likes

Yeah Makoto gets that a lot :yahaha: She’s probably one of the first examples of a “woobie” in that regard. But that doesn’t make her hardships any less valid, I feel, and I’m glad to see there are people that still consider her route as their fave.

2 Likes