CLANNAD - Tomoyo Sakagami Route & Character Discussion

This is weird. I didn’t find myself caring much about Tomoyo in both the anime and the Tomoyo After spin-off, but I ended up quite liking her in the VN. And even weirder, I like her not exactly because she’s awesome (I do like her savagery though), but because of her character flaws. I mean, she’s a character with very high charisma and talent, which makes it easy for her to earn admirers, but at the same time, she cares little about her own public image (I’m sorry @EisenKoubu), has little sense of personal space, and like others have mentioned here, she doesn’t pick up on social cues well.

tl;dr: she’s pretty unaware of her awkwardness, and I ended up liking her because of it.

I like this route, but I don’t think I can talk much about it, since there’s been a fairly extensive discussions about it here. However, there’s this imagery in her route that really worsened the feels for me here. It was the breakup scene. Tomoya and Tomoyo were at the foot of the hill, but after that happened, Tomoyo walked up the hill while Tomoya was left behind… ;_;

There is a gigantic flaw in this route though, and it’s not in the story – it’s Tomoyo’s voice actor. She portrays Tomoyo well for the most part, but at the reunion scene where Tomoyo was supposed to be tearful, she didn’t even try. :expressionless:

The start was really slow though, but Tomoyo’s savagery made up for it. Poor Sunohara becoming the chew toy though.

Rating: 4.5/5

Endnote: They should have made an another arrangement of Kanojo no Honki. It’s too cool, so cool that at times it didn’t really suit the scenes where Tomoyo is just really being cute.

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Alright, I just finished Tomoyo’s route so now time for my thoughts on it.

I don’t really have much to say about Tomoyo’s character that everyone else has not said honestly. A lot of people like to say that she’s perfect and a Mary Sue, and she’s really not. She does have her flaws and one of them is her lack of confidence in both her feminine side and when it comes to her relationship with Tomoya Luigi. We see her lack of confidence with her feminine side during the early scenes where after Sunohara makes assumptions that Tomoyo’s a man and then gets his butt kicked, she takes Luigi to the other building and asks her what would make her seem like a woman. Later on when Luigi and Tomoyo are in relationship and Luigi jokingly says to Tomoyo that they should break up, we see Tomoyo take whatever he said very seriously to the point where she requests Luigi to never make that joke again and this scene reflects her lack of confidence when it comes to relationships. Another flaw that Tomoyo arguably has is that she’s overbearing. If someone refuses to do what is right in her eyes, she will not give up until she finds out the reason why and try to make them do the right thing. If Luigi doesn’t wake up early or goes to school late, she would go to his house and make sure he does wake up early and goes to school on time. She’s the kind of person who would be the bane of one’s existence if they are very easygoing and laid back.

With all I said so far, you might think that I don’t like Tomoyo and well that’s not true. I do like her, not as much as some of the other heroines, but she has her charms. She’s quite the savage and while she might be overbearing, her caring for other people, especially her friends and willingness to make them better people is something I admire. Her backstory was really good and I admire her willingness to put her bad past behind her and start a new life. In a way, it’s very much what would have become of Luigi had something terrible happened to his father, he was able to realize the value of his father, and patch things up with him as a result of said incident. Speaking of Luigi, the romance between Tomoyo and Luigi was well done with some sweet romantic moments and comedic moments as well. Not to mention, both Luigi and Tomoyo have chemistry which I think added to the charm of their relationship. Overall, I can see why some say that Luigi and Tomoyo are a really good matching pair. Lastly, the comedic moments between Tomoyo and Sunohara were hilarious, providing some of the funniest slapstick I’ve seen in the VN so far, and making me feel kinda sorry for poor Sunohara even though he kind of deserved some of that smackdown. :laughing:

Now for the route itself, I really liked this route. It might have started slow, but picked up the pace and I was really invested in seeing what was going to happen next. One of the themes for this route is how society tends to judge you based on your past, but one of the other themes that I picked up on that I didn’t notice was the theme of habits. Tomoyo’s route displays how hard it is to form new habits and break old habits. For example, it took some effort for Tomoyo to make Luigi and Sunohara early birds and then when both Tomoyo and Luigi break up, both Luigi and Sunohara find it hard to go back to the habit of sleeping and waking up late. Sure they eventually did go back to sleeping and getting up late, but it took a week and it showed how hard it was to break a habit that they were so used to. As for the breakup scene, I thought it was done really well and I loved how they used Tomoyo going back up the hill as symbolism to display how Luigi felt regarding his position in society when compared to Tomoyo. In fact, one could say that Tomoyo’s route shows Luigi at his lowest self-esteem, as he berates himself almost anytime when it came to him, Tomoyo and their positions in society. The reconciliation scene was really good, though I will agree with @BlackHayate02 that Tomoyo’s VA could have been more tearful. Other than that though, it had some really good visuals and music, and Ana was a strange, strange, abstract song that I have a funny memory with. Overall, Tomoyo’s route was pretty solid and I’m looking forward to reading Tomoyo After.

Up next is Yukine Miyazawa. :smile:

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Just finished her route. A few questions:

While they were still in the early stages of Tomoyo being in the SC, Tomoya felt guilty that he was holding her back, especially in her quest to save the Sakura trees. After she saved the Cherry Blossoms, what happened to the, “She’ll achieve great things in life if I weren’t dragging her down.”?

Also, was there a way to make their relationship work while Tomoyo was still fighting for the Cherry Blossoms?

Tomoya probably never stoppes feeling that… until tomoyo confronted him in the snow, telling him about her regrets. So maybe after that, he still thought he was pulling her down (you can find out yourself in Tomoyo After!), but he probably thought at that point it was worth it. Because that is what Tomoyo also wants.

I really, very much, honest-to-god believe it could work. How? Simple. By Tomoyo not shirking her responsibilities just to meet Tomoya and instead planning her time well enough such that she does everythinf she needs to do and spends free time when she can.

But of course society yadda yadda nobody thinks what she’s doing is wrong everything is tomoya’s fault yadda yadda… Those lingering social strains pushed Tomoya to end their relationship instead.

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From a POV of storytelling I think the break up was simply more dramatically intense, but also having Tomoya react in that way maybe suggests that they were trying to show his self-esteem issues (depending on the order followed, this being some way before we see his more positive actions bear fruit).

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But wasn’t Tomoyo skipping her duties the bigger factor? Like the time he decided to break up with her was after the talk with the SC member who told him the problems Tomoyo was causing by skipping out on her duties.

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Conversely it could’ve also worked out if Tomoya had been more steadfast and confident in his position. Or if he’d taken the effort to prove the allegations wrong. Or if Tomoyo had simply been less ignorant of the effects of her actions. In the end it comes down to wishing either of the two - or the authority figures involved for that matter - to be someone they’re not.

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Yes but nobody else realized that was the bigger factor. Not Tomoyo, not Tomoya, not even society as a whole.

Well, sure, they could have made the relationship work if that were the case… but I am doubtful that tomoyo would still be able to save the cherry trees if she kept it up, no matter how confident tomoya became…

That much is true, and that’s what makes this story beautiful. It shows the story of two flawed people trying, then failing, then succeeding to make things work out.

Tomoyo being less ignorant would have been nice, but that’s her flaw. It’s a pretty big flaw, but literally nobody else in the story sees that flaw. Heck, I think even half the readers fail to notice this flaw. And I think that’s what ticks me off the most. I don’t hate Tomoyo, I hate society.

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Well, I started CLANNAD recently, and have finished two routes as of now, this being the first.

I will state my opinion to start since it seems necessary. I like Tomoyo, if maybe not as much as some.

While I was hoping for more from the romance itself, it was a good route otherwise.

One thing I’d like to discuss is the bad ending. I didn’t see anyone bring it up, though at times I may have skimmed a bit through reading this.

It’s not the kind of bad ending I’m used to. Tomoyo and Tomoya stay together. However, with her one other goal defeated, Tomoyo’s devotion has her decide to not even finish school in order to be with him, which could derail her future much more than the good ending. In a sense, the bad ending is what people were concerned about occurring.

I suppose one could say that Tomoyo’s flaw is a prioritization of her love over all things. “I will become the student council president to preserve the trees for my brother” “I will nurture my relationship at the cost of my other student council duties”.

Her past may not have taught her about people very well. Tomoyo was likely used to achieving her own goals, and generally not having to consider others besides Takafumi very much.

I may edit this and add more, nothing else is coming right now.

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I praise you, good sir, for seeing that glaring flaw that everyone (both in the novel and outside) has ignored.

As the legendary Freddie Mercury once said: “Too much love will kill you”

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Everyone has ignored this? It’s the whole point of the Tomoyo route!

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Hmm, I don’t think it’s quite that simple tbh. The problem is less with her prioritizing her love over her other goals, but more with her being unwilling to commit to it, trying to balance both sides and failing really badly at doing so without realizing it.

She’s also naive, in that she doesn’t realize that “what she can contribute to society” is so important to the people around her, Tomoya, classmates and teachers alike, because to her, that’s her own problem - as it should be, no less!.. but it just isn’t how things are, and she doesn’t take notice of just how much this affects Tomoya in particular.

So really, I’d say while people like to attribute her priority issues to Tomoya instead of Tomoyo for some reason, the problem is more fundamental in that none of them really care about Tomoyo as a person, they just care about her as a contributor to society. And so Tomoya becomes the ‘liability’. Tragic, isn’t it.

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Some people way back when (just scrolling up there a bit) thought that the whole point of the Tomoyo route was that Tomoya wasn’t being a man enough because he refused to join Tomoyo in the student council :stuck_out_tongue:

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I need help here, at Day 21, I keep getting rerouted to Misae’s route and I can’t figure out what to do?

During that day, there’s a branching path where one of the choices states “Persist and go to Misae-san’s room”. You must not choose that choice.

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Thank you for the information, I kept making the mistake…

Since Necroposting is apparently allowed and encouraged around here, I suppose this is the best place to start before I dig into any TA threads, since a lot of my lingering issues with TA stem from the original route and how their relationship is established up to that point.

At the time of writing, I have only completed 4 routes: Kyou, Ryou, Misae, and obviously Tomoyo’s. While I haven’t finished any others (started Kotomi’s atm), I do have a feeling my opinions aren’t going to radically change at this point, based on what I already know from the anime and now have a good idea for how the VN and anime differ in their interpretations.

Although I haven’t finished Kotomi’s or Nagisa’s, I get a constant underlying vibe from the game about needs and wants. To my perspective, Kyou/Ryou simply want Tomoya. These feelings of love seem to be their first, and they simply have trouble making those feelings known. Although Tomoya explicitly mentions multiple times that he thinks Ryou needs him, they still seem to carry on mostly fine whether or not you engage with them.

Nagisa and Kotomi, however, need Tomoya to grow, and almost appear to fall of the face of the earth if you don’t engage with them. Nagisa never starts up the Drama Club or becomes true friends with Tomoya, and Kotomi is likely still sitting alone in the library where you’d meet her. If Tomoya doesn’t help them, they make no progress, and he doesn’t ever actively think about them ever again.

The Tomoyo route gives us a something of an opposite in this case. There is a much more apparent mutual need and interest that is established almost immediately between the two. The beginning of their relationship is easy, natural, and they get along well because of their shared current loneliness and difficult pasts.

The wrench gets thrown in when finds out she looking to become Student Council Prez. It causes him to question his position, but instead resolves to simply enjoy the time they have left, and break apart when and if she becomes Prez. Despite that, he still actively helps her get elected and votes for her himself, because by that point he realizes this isn’t a passing phase; he wants to stay with Tomoyo because he cares about her. At this point, the want is established for both of them; they continue to try to make it work.

The most interesting part of the route comes from societal pressures that get put on them. Neither Tomoya nor Tomoyo care in the least what any one thinks about them as individuals or a couple. What they do care about is obvious: each other. The actual problem is that Tomoyo’s major flaw is her denseness: she simply isn’t aware of why Tomoya starts doubting their relationship, despite him hinting at it multiple times (ie: the phone conversation).

The breakup scene perfectly encapsulate a second transition: Tomoya’s want becomes a form of love. It’s not a beautiful, pure, endearing kind of love: it’s a sacrificial love, similar to the way a parent might give their life (literally or figuritively) for their child. Tomoya can’t handle the pressure and hurting someone he cares about: he’s spent that past three years thinking and hearing he’s worthless. He can’t tear down that mental wall and follow her up the hill, and it’s unrealistic to expect him to. Whether or not it’s morally correct, it is a rational conclusion, albeit born from irrational concepts created by him and those around him. I’ve done this kind of thing before; it’s about setting yourself aside and doing the cold mental calculus to figuring out what’s best for someone you care about more than yourself. It’s only during the eight month gap that he also realizes what he felt was real and that he genuinely needs Tomoyo once she gone.

It’s hard to say whether Tomoyo feels similarly at that moment since we aren’t able to see what’s going on in her head, but I’d say she makes both transitions during the gap as well. She too sacrifices something (a potentially bright future) for what she wants, needs, and loves. That being said, I imagine it was easier for her to come to this conclusion than Tomoyo since she never cared about the expectation society put on her in the first place, as well as her propensity to focus solely on going after what she wants. With the previous goal complete, there is nothing to hold her back anymore.

Overall, this is my favorite route yet. It’s believeable, excellently paced, and is solid from moment to moment.

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I agree with you. Tomoyo and Tomoya’s relationship feels incredibly natural to me, and that’s why I love them. There’s hardly much melodrama and the scope is small enough that the focus never deviates from them wanting to be together. Though Tomoya is out of place here, in my opinion. He seems to be a better character and more developed person when he’s taking care of someone, not when he’s being taken care of here by Tomoyo.

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I do agree to a certain extent with your perspective that Tomoya is very in his element when he’s helping someone, but in ever example I think of, I always see a mutual “yin and yang” sort of pattern develop. He helps her become Student Council Prez, and their resolve and relationship grows together because of it. He lets her wake him up and make him lunches/meals because it makes her feel “girly” which helps her with her “tom-boy” complex quirk, but ultimately it makes them both feel happy and needed. Even breaking up with her is his own twisted way of helping her, albeit at the cost of himself. I can’t really think of an example besides the break-up where only one of them stands to benefit (and even in that case, the “benefits” of that move are questionable) without the other.

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Wow you hit the nail on the head right there. I love how you point out her greatest flaw so well, and don’t prescribe to the whole “oh tomoya should juat git gud” mentality. Her denseness is her charm and her bane, and what makes things worse is that this denseness actively causea even more internal problems for tomoya over the course of their relationship.

I’d argue there’ a much deeper mutual need between Tomoya and Nagisa (whereas between tomoyo it is immediate but skin-deep) but that’s for another discussion, I feel. I also find Tomoya and Nagisa’s relationship much more natural whereas with Tomoyo it feels much more romanticized… but that’s also me basing from my own personal experiences.

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