CLANNAD - After Story Arc Discussion

Part of me wants to explain why this arc is so amazing, but everyone else here echoes my thoughts. In my humble opinion, this is the most compelling, insightful, tear-jerking story Key has ever produced.

Therefore, I’ll try to list some of my gripes with this arc instead. Most of them are minor, but a couple weren’t noted previously, so I believe it’s worth visiting.

  1. Although After Story was slow-paced, I didn’t feel most of it was filler. I believe almost every scene existed to convey a specific thought or feeling from the characters involved. I cannot in good faith say this is true about the beginning portion. Nagisa’s attempt to keep the drama club going after Tomoya and Sunohara left was dragged out and unpleasant to read. In spite of how much she’s grown as a person, she’s only able to get a reluctant club adviser and fails to confidently deliver her orientation speech. It makes me feel like Tomoya’s efforts to make her more assertive and branch out were in vain. I know considering how drama is unpopular at Hikarizaka, it would be tough for her. But I feel the writing over-emphasized Nagisa’s struggles, almost as if she was kind of new to this. Is she really THAT reliant on Tomoya that she can’t autonomously function? I doubt that’s supposed to be the implication, but it’s there nonetheless.

  2. Akio’s perverseness. Haah… I love Akio. He gets a lot of funny and heartwarming moments in this arc. But the revelation of the porn magazines he’s hiding from his wife, the lewd pictures he takes of Nagisa, and peddling one of his porn magazines to Tomoya because he believes the latter is sexually frustrated was all in bad taste. I know Clannad’s a quirky comedy series a good chunk of the time, but Akio spends a lot of time poignantly participating in the grounded drama of the series. It’s hard for me to like him when the writing implies he’s perving on his daughter, even if the implication is he may be exaggerating some of it to see Tomoya’s reaction. And on a side note, I really wish choosing all the chaste options in the “Does Tomoya wanna be a perv?” story should allow Tomoya to reject Akio’s porn magazines without awkwardly lusting over Sanae’s panties, prompting a Little Busters-esque battle in which they see who is the manliest. I mean, we get a not h-scene that’s kinda uncomfortable; I feel I was cheated out of the opposite. The anime made the right decision in adapting these elements out of the character.

  3. Echoing a number of people here and elsewhere, I like how the anime handled the reason they don’t bring Nagisa to a hospital better. I understand the sentiment, but when both your life AND your baby’s life is at stake, you need to take every precaution possible. I feel Maeda didn’t need Akio and Tomoya to be bowled over in this aspect to prove Nagisa’s strength, either, because wholeheartedly rejecting the idea of an abortion conveys that idea well enough.

  4. Being the free-spirited, emotionally impulsive person he is, Akio would have gone out of his way to knock Tomoya out of his funk after a couple months. There’s no way he would’ve passively waited for Tomoya to do it himself (and even then, Tomoya was spurred on by outside sources anyhow). I can agree with him taking care of Ushio without complaint for a little bit of time, but once he realizes Tomoya isn’t growing out of his depression, he would confront him. Whether violently or not, it would be intense. I can forgive this a little bit, because scenes like the Field of Flowers could not have been surpassed by this confrontation, but it’s more in-character for Akio. He’s just not the kind of guy who would let Tomoya’s shirking of responsibility stand.

  5. I appreciated how Tomoya and Nagisa visit Naoyuki in a scene that surprisingly enough, didn’t make it to the anime. It effectively foreshadows the trouble he’s getting into. However, his mini-arc post-Nagsia’s death felt cheap and over-the-top. It’s like Maeda recognized how unlikeable the character was and decided to do everything in his power to make him seem like the most sympathetic character ever. It didn’t work for me, I’m afraid. Shino’s appearance wasn’t properly built-up to, her story basically hand waves Naoyuki’s failings as a parent because he “tried hard” (rejecting those close to you who want to aid you in your emotionally-wrecked state is quite the responsible decision. Even Tomoya knew better), and making Tomoya feel 100% in the wrong for disliking him. This is made worse by how unapologetic and victimized Naoyuki seems to think he has. I know the guy is broken, but couldn’t you at least have him acknowledge he made mistakes to Tomoya? The latter’s bawling at how poorly he treated his father, in spite of the many transgressions his father committed. It left a really bad taste in my mouth.

  6. The standard end was poorly constructed. Ushio’s sickness emerges out of nowhere because Maeda wanted to write her death scene. As cynical as it is of me to say, it had no emotional impact because it wasn’t built up to. There was no foreshadowing that she would inherit the disease, and worse, at this point, no one needs to grow. Not only was Nagisa’s death properly progressed to narratively, but it also served to expose how weak and frail Tomoya really was. Now that he’s realized from friends and family that life is worth living regardless, why does he need this additional pain? It just rings very false to me.

As with many of you, I agree that the ending is narratively and thematically sound. In addition, I admire the many people on this thread who are smart and thoughtful enough to analyze the extremely abstract nature of the light orbs, the Illusionary World, and how it relates to the events of the different routes. I don’t think my brain is big enough to comprehend something like that without it cramping all over…

7 Likes

I’m pretty sure that the cause of Tomoya’s funk being the death of his only daughter had something to do with Akio being incapable of acting like he usually does…

The rest of the issues are either fairly valid or things I don’t have much of a gripe against, so this is the only one I’m commenting on :yukismil:

I don’t know… Akio has shown the capability to be straightforward and needlessly blunt when he feels he needs to hammer in a point (take the baseball match he forced Tomoya to go through to prove he had the determination to take care of his daughter). In addition, Akio shows himself to be a surprisingly calm and resolute person in the face of tragedy. He knows how outwardly emotional his wife can be, and he braces himself for that. I won’t deny this will definitely have an effect on him, but I don’t think it would keep him from insisting Tomoya would come back, and I definitely don’t think he should have a virtually non-existent role in Tomoya’s reconciliation arc with Ushio.

I guess this is where we can agree to disagree. Having lost his own daughter, I think that’s the kind of tragedy that would heavily affect him, even moreso than a bus hijacking. I think he’d feel empathy towards Tomoya, and would make him all the more hesitant to push Tomoya to take care of Ushio.

Akio is a very emotionally heated person, who, when cornered by something he truly cares about, he becomes hesitant to do anything that would risk losing those. Which explains why he was so intent on hiding the pictures from Nagisa, despite knowing it is the wrong thing to do. Take that as a contrast with Sanae who, despite being emotional on the outset, remains level-headed on what should and should not be done… at least after she’s done crying about it :love:

5 Likes

Fair enough. Akio does show a surprising level of sensitivity at times. However, I do feel this is partially because he’s dealing with Nagisa. Tomoya is a brusque, sarcastic individual who isn’t afraid to speak his mind. Even in his depression, that part of him hasn’t really gone away post-Nagisa’s death. Also, he showed the capability to emotionally lash out when he intervened for the sake of the trees being chopped down for the hospital earlier in the arc. I understand your argument, but for me, I think it would have been more plausible for him to confront Tomoya.

1 Like

So i wrote this awhile back but I wanted to know what you guys think of this, I carefully watched through scenes and the anime again to get these things

Please be warned that there are spoilers so read at your own risk

Girl and Illusionary World:
When the world was created a hidden world was sealed off thus creating the Illusionary World (IW). The Girl also becomes born into the world because she is the world. The IW is a barren wasteland that stretches endlessly, there is only a small house with a wooden table, the residence of the Girl.
Connection between Real World (RW) and IW:
The Girl sees the happiness of the real world (Hikarizaka [Town of Clannad]) as packets of light. The most unique packets of light are then sent back to RW as light orbs which are used to grant wishes. There is a “dimensional portal” that connects the two worlds. A Place Where Wishes Come True is a spot in the forest (part of the town) where the Girl reappears after leaving the IW; this place is under a large tree. One must travel up into the sky to get to the RW from IW.
Light Orbs:
Special mirages that come from the IW that are said to grant wishes in the RW when true happiness is obtained in the RW:
True happiness obtained in RW unique orbs of light are shown in IW special orb of light is sent back to RW to grant wishes
Light orbs can only grant what the user says it wishes for so the wish must be very specific in order to get the wish that is desired; wishes can only be granted if the user really wants the wish to occur; multiple light orbs combined can create greater wishes
Timeline:
Creation of the world: IW is sealed off from RW, Girl (Ushio) is born
Ancient times: Light orbs (LO) are first witnessed in Hikarizaka when true happiness is obtained, these were used to grant wishes
10 years prior to events of Clannad: Akio begs for Nagisa’s life at the Place Where Wishes Come True and his wish is granted. In return, Nagisa’s health becomes bound to the town’s happiness
2 years prior to events of Clannad: Fuko is involved in a car accident which puts her in a coma
Clannad: Events are occurring simultaneously
Real World Illusionary World
Tomoya meets Nagisa at the foot of the hill Tomoya enters as a soul
Girl builds soul a robot body
Tomoya marries Nagisa
Nagisa dies after giving birth to Ushio Winter starts to come
Ushio dies 5 years later Tomoya (robot) remembers who he is in RW
Light orbs Tomoya gathered in RW are able to make a miracle to happen
Ushio is born but Nagisa survives IW disappears after Girl travels to RW

Clannad Theory:
Brief Summary:
Ushio wants to get out of the IW and does this by becoming the offspring of Tomoya and Nagisa

Long Summary:
After Girl (Ushio) becomes born into the IW she quickly becomes lonely and decides to look for a way out. She is able to find a potential way out after finding Akio begging for Nagisa’s life and decides to save her which binds her to the happiness of the town. When Tomoya and Nagisa meet for the first time at the foot of the hill she makes Tomoya enter the IW as a soul and then builds a robot body for him. While developing their relationship Ushio is making Tomoya fulfill tasks to collect light orbs (he helps people in Hikarizaka obtain true happiness), unbeknownst to Tomoya. After Tomoya and Nagisa marry, Ushio is born however Nagisa dies from her illness. Winter arrives at the IW because Ushio (Girl in IW) inherited Nagisa’s illness. 5 years later Ushio dies from same illness as Nagisa. Tomoya (robot form) remembers who he is in the RW and after gathering 13 light orbs he uses them to wish that he could remeet Nagisa at the foot of the hill but this time hope that she survives childbirth. Before wish is granted Tomoya (robot form) and Girl (Ushio) are blown into the sky and into the RW; IW is destroyed after Girl (Ushio) permanently leaves IW. Tomoya is sent to another timeline in the RW and his wish is granted.

Addition to Long Summary:
Fuko arc ep 1-9 interpretation:

  1. IW girl gives Fuko, who is in coma, chance to come back to life:
    A. She must obtain a light orb
    B. Get Tomoya and Nagisa closer
    Evidence for A:
    Ep 4: Fuko says she doesn’t know why she is at school but after getting hit by car she found herself there (infers IW girl didn’t say anything about how to obtain the light orb)
    She asks Tomoya for help to congratulate Kouko (Fuko’s sister) on day of wedding and also asks him to get everyone to go. She hands out starfish carvings for invitation
    Ep 5: light orb is shown when Kouko was talking about whether or not she should marry while Fuko is in coma
    Interpretation: light orb represents happiness from Kouko’s marriage
    Ep 7: Things get harder when Fuko’s condition worsens when people start forgetting the wedding and Fuko
    Ep 9: after seeing wedding sign made by Koumura people remember again
    Ep 10: light orb shown again coming to IW, fuko’s light orb
    Evidence for B:
    Ep 8: fountain scene at park, Fuko nods when she sees Tomoya and Nagisa talking
    Ep 9: Fuko says that Tomoya and Nagisa should call each other by first names since they seem like close friends; she says that she wants them to be happy like Yusuke and Kouko (hint hint)
    In general Tomoya and Nagisa are helping with passing out starfish
    Evidence that Fuko met IW girl in the past:
    AS ep 22: Ushio is seen sleeping under tree first in IW girl form then in normal 5 year old form while Fuko comes up to her

Evidence for Clannad Theory:
From Kotomi’s parents’ research which said that when the world was created a hidden world was sealed off (IW)
Kotomi continues her parents’ research and discovers that the hidden world was said to existing alongside the RW and says that there could be multiple dimensions of the RW
In the anime title screens and VN title screen, a tree from the forest is shown; title screen of After story ep 22 shows 13 light orbs; title screen after the events of After story ep 22 the Girl from IW is shown sleeping under this tree
Winter was never shown in IW prior to birth of Ushio, scenes in IW hint towards Ushio’s death
In VN, player loses light orb in title screen after helping her with her sister’s wedding in Nagisa route
Fuko sees Girl from IW (Ushio) sleeping under the tree

2 Likes

I voted 5/5, the After Story is ultimately very rewarding with numerous points worthy of discussion - and my thanks go to earlier contributors for posting their thoughts. Honestly I haven’t got my head around everything from just a single run through, but I did want to say…

“But I’m a little tired now. May I rest for a while?”

Oddly I didn’t find Nagisa’s death affected me much in the VN ( though I adore her character) perhaps because the whole pregnancy took place over a longer time, and there were plenty of ominous statements as to the risks that I was actually quite prepared mentally for what happened.

Whereas in the anime, watching the episode last night, despite the same kind of foreboding and knowing what transpires everything just happened so much more quickly. I found myself getting very teary eyed, and maybe this is simply the adaptation giving both Tomoya (with actions and spoken lines) and Nagisa’s POV after Ushio’s birth more impact? Then the music, “Nagisa (Parting at the Foot of the Hill)” accompanying Tomoya’s flashbacks - oh man! TBH it’s already difficult to remember precisely how it played out in the VN after only a month.

In the VN my more futile manly hold back the tears moments were all about Ushio…

I hope I can post something a bit more profound at some point!

4 Likes

I’ve just watched the concluding episodes of the anime, and first off the scenes when Fuko visits Ushio are hilarious - whoever came up with Fuko’s bizarre personality is either a little deranged or a genius :stuck_out_tongue_winking_eye:

Then I had a thought, does anyone think that Fuko’s bond with Ushio ( considering the final scene of the After Story ) is is some way connected to Fuko’s own near death experience? I haven’t yet rationalised this for myself though…

I am kind of looking at The Illusionary World as being outside space & time as we know the laws of physics and where past, present and future are the same ( as per the “Wormhole Aliens” of Star Trek Deep Space 9 ).

1 Like

I just found this interpretation of the Illusionary World on Reddit. I don’t know if the author has ever been a Kaza member but I haven’t seen a viewpoint quite like it here so I guess not.

Definitely food for thought. I’m going to take this into account on my current ongoing re-read and see if I find any contradictions.

The full text copied here

Maybe I’m dumb for not making this connection sooner, but it wasn’t until I played through the VN that I realized the entirety of what the Illusionary World represents. After watching the anime I knew that the girl is Ushio’s soul and the robot Tomoya’s. However, I always just assumed the world was a random empty space just conjured up to give the girl and robot something to do symbolically and to represent the afterlife in a way.

But if you think about Nagisa’s desires throughout the series–how she wishes things/life would never change–then the World takes on new meaning. This theme of time and people inevitably changing the world we live in (Tomoyo’s sakura trees, the field where Akio went to to save Nagisa, etc. etc.) is woven throughout Clannad. I’d argue it’s a bit more than just a theme, and actually provides a structure for the Illusionary World.

We learn that the Illusionary World likely exists outside of our understanding of time, and thus isn’t necessarily subject to the effects of time. Additionally, no new life is born into this World. You could say nothing ever changes. That’s the important bit. Tomoya tells Nagisa to find “new fun and happy things” rather than wallowing over the old things or wishing things would never change. That’s because the alternative is the Illusionary World–a lonely, sad world where nothing ever changes. Nothing ever grows sadder, but nothing ever grows happier. The only way such a world could exist is if it was devoid of people. Thus, the Illusionary World is the truth behind what Nagisa (and later Tomoya) think they want.

The reality is that such a world is miserable. In After Story, after the loss of Nagisa and Usiho, Tomoya reaches a state where he also wishes nothing would change. Although he originally followed his own advice by finding a new happy thing in Ushio, he can’t do the same after the death of a second loved one. He betrays his advice, and wishes for a world where nothing changes. That is possibly the main reason he enters the Illusionary World. In that World, he learns why people need to find new happy things. The alternative is too desolate.

There may be a few issues with this interpretation, but as a first thought it’s really blowing my mind.

There’s one thing I still haven’t worked out, which is the existence and significance of the small animals. They are obviously there to symbolise something, but what exactly? The IW is supposedly unchanging but the animals clearly change it on at least a microscale…

2 Likes

I have finished reading Clannad after 75 hours and After story was clearly my favourite route with Kotomi’s. I rated it 5/5 without any hesitation ! :smile:
I have read every comment of this discussion and I would like to share my thoughts about the reason of Ushio’s death.
For me it wasn’t just because Maeda wanted us to cry( and I found they put more effort in the anime to make it sad, by using too wonderful tracks that are Snowfield and Distant Years than just Roaring Tides II reapeating again and again and thanks to the performance of Tomoya’s seiyuu ), but like Nagisa said, " the tides always come back to the shore ".
When Akio prayed for his child to be resurrected, the town gave Nagisa back to him but she had to return to the IW one day. Ushio being her child, it’s her who has to die and become the IW. I noticed that during her death scene, Tomoya said that the world around him was narrowing, like if he was already leaving the RW. So after that Ushio and her father make the habitants of the town happy, the town bring they back to reality and Ushio appears under the tree.
I four it strange that Ushio developed her illness just after having reconciled with Tomoya and I came with the idea that what makes her die isn’t just the winter or the changes in the town but Tomoya who doesn’t want things to change and still isn’t able to love the town ( Dango daikazoku like Nagisa says ).
The true ending makes a lot more sense when we remember that the first line Tomoya says is " I hate this town " and that at the end he begins to love the Dango Daikazoku. Ushio’s death is supposed to happen before every other heroine routes, so she had to die because if she didn’t, Tomoya would have never learnt to love the people in the city, would have never accepted that the reality is hard and that we have to accept that good things have to change and it would have caused Nagisa and Ushio to die forever. Living with the fear of dying isn’t living, we have to cherish every moment of our life and move towards the future, creating new memories without being trapped by the past ( like in Charlotte ). We have to live for the sake of the others because when we make other people happy it makes us happy too ( reference to Komari from Little busters ). This is a reccurrent theme used by Jun Maeda and it’s a message that affects me a lot.
This is something that the Anime couldn’t explain well and to see Clannad from the perspective of the VN makes the story way more clear .
Sorry if I posted a long text in this old discussion but I wanted to put some order in my mind and give my regards about Ushio’s death.
Anyways I will never forget the Furukawas, best family created by Key and Nagisa and Tomoya, my favourite couple forever ! :ai: Also Ushio is adorable but I wanted to see her more ! :uee:
I don’t know if I can say that Clannad is the best VN because I have just read it with Planetarian and Harmonia, but I’m sure that this is a true masterpiece that will always have a huge place in my heart ! :grinning:

3 Likes